DMG II -- In my hands . . .

[Simplicity]

What the...?? Is this really in the DMG2? People are burbling on and on about the mob rules, and this in there?

This book just went from "not bloody likely" to "holy crap, gotta skim through it!".

Yes, this is really in there. All businesses are essentially the same except for the resources they require, the investment they require, and the risk they involve (and of course, whatever the DM decides to do with them... events need to make sense with the business).

Options include: farms, taverns, shops, services, universities, crime organizations, fighting schools, moneylenders, and maybe a few more I can't remember.

The mechanic is pretty damn cool, I think. These rules are probably applicable to about half of the campaigns I've ever run.

There's tons of other cool stuff in the DMG2:
- Feats for guild membership, and the applicable benefits depending on the type of guild (thieves guild, mage guild, etc.). And not just membership, but what the benefits are if you RUN the damn thing.
- Feats for being an apprentice/mentor of various types. (Finally a useful, interesting wizard feat other than Spell Focus and Item Creation... Though it can apply for classes other than wizards). Heck, if you want to be an apprentice *blacksmith*. Here's how you do it.

 

[Silveras]

What the...?? Is this really in the DMG2? People are burbling on and on about the mob rules, and this in there?

This book just went from "not bloody likely" to "holy crap, gotta skim through it!".

The Mob rules are about 1 page out of 292. They have gotten far more than their share of attention in this thread, yes.

The business rules are a neat, streamlined way to handle it. There are also suggestions for creating encounters related to the business.

I mentioned the Weapon and Armor Templates earlier.

There are also Magical Locations as Treasure, which puts a gp value on the benefits gained from special locations and suggests that it can be used to replace standard treasure that way.

The Teamwork Benefits permiered in Heroes of Battle, and seem reasonable. I rather like the "Avoid Friendly Fire" one, which grants you a bonus on Reflex saves vs. your allies' area spells because you have gotten to know the signs of their casting, and you have learned to duck as a result. Also, the Spell Barrage one is nice; you and the other casters on your team have practiced delivering your spells in succession, so that foes are hit when still recovering from the previuous spell. All enemy saving throws vs your team's spells after the first in a round take a penalty.

As mentioned, the Mentor/Apprentice rules offer some interesting options. It is also nice that the rules cover the Apprentice becoming a Mentor in turn (after exceeding the ability of the original Mentor).

Saltmarsh serves as a good "stock town" for DMs who need one on-the-spot, as well as a good "how to apply all the settlement rules" example.

The new presentation format for magic items is nice. It is divided into multiple sections, each of which gets a bold-face caption setting it off:

(Lore)
Description
Activation
Effect
Aura/Caster Level
Construction
Weight
Price

The Lore entry is optional, and presents "backstory" for the item, if it has any.

Also, the discussion of artifacts, while short, seems like good advice. Basically, some of the artifacts are discussed in terms of "why this might be problem to give out as treasure". The discussion covers how the item might be unbalancing, what kinds of situations might make it less unbalancing, at what levels (if any) the problems cease to be significant, and when the item might be appropriate for use as a part of the party's treasure.

And then there is that nice picture of feeding the Wand of Orcus to the Tarrasque, one of the suggested means of destroying an artifact.

Let's see... what else looked interesting...
Oh, yes, how to come up with an idea of how strong the Law & Order forces are in a settlement. Magical Events ... things that either must be made to come to pass, or stopped before someone else makes them happen. Benchmarking hireling abilities. And some nice sample traps, including Fairy Rings.

 

[Particle_Man]

I think intuitively that a rabble-rouser or bard could start a mob off, but once it is "Activated" a bard or rabble-rouser could not control it.

I liked seeing Ned again from Saltmarsh. I remember him!

 

[JoeGKushner]

I've been paging through this, reading the starting section about the different types of players.

Do they ever come out and say, "And if changing your style results in player XX only having fun but not the rest of the group, kick him to the curb." There are several areas where it points out that the DM has to be responsible, take into account all the different player styles, etc..., but I havent' gotten to a point where it states that yes, some players are not going to jive with your group and that's okay and to keep the rest of the group happy, that player should not stay.

 

[colonelthread]

Do you really need to spend $30 on a book to tell you that?

 

[JoeGKushner]

Do you really need to spend $30 on a book to tell you that?

Certainly not.

However, with all the emphasis that is put on having people work together in the first section, I'm just wondering if they acknowledge that sometimes it doesn't work out. I've known a few people who read these books like biblical text and will try and follow the 'official' word right down to the core.

Heck, for the player's section, I'm thinking that Robin Law's Guide to Good Game Mastery is still probably one of the best.

 

[Mercule]

Weapon and Armor Templates are a nice idea.

Oh, yes. This is the way mithril and adamantine should be presented. In fact, these metals were so legendary, IMC, that, prior to 3E, PCs would have happily traded a +3 sword for an unenchanted one made of mithril. I'm going to twiddle with the templates and set up my versions of mithril/adamantine.

 

[Rel]

Certainly not.

However, with all the emphasis that is put on having people work together in the first section, I'm just wondering if they acknowledge that sometimes it doesn't work out. I've known a few people who read these books like biblical text and will try and follow the 'official' word right down to the core.

Heck, for the player's section, I'm thinking that Robin Law's Guide to Good Game Mastery is still probably one of the best.

I'm still working my way through the book but I've read the section you're talking about at the beginning. I think that one of the underlying assumptions they make is that the people you're gaming with are good friends. With that in mind they seem to advocate any measure of compromise as being preferable to booting somebody from the group and therefore messing up a friendship.

I don't necessarily think that is bad advice but I do think that sometimes folks need to recognize that, while they might be the best of friends, compatible in all other respects, that their ideas of good gaming are too far apart to have a good time together in an RPG. At that point they're far better off remaining friends but finding different games to be involved in rather than bear the constant frustration of attempting to find an untennable middle ground.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

My father's day hopes have been dashed. Rather than getting the DMG2, I got pants.

grrrrrr.....

 

[Henry]

...Rather than getting the DMG2, I got pants. grrrrrr.....

You know, get a few other angry fathers from this thread together, and you can get a mob going to loot and pillage some DMG II's from a neighboring village...