Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Lucius Foxhound said:
Yeah, wow, I'd hate to be limited to poxy spells like, oh, blade barrier, dispel evil, holy word, miracle...
DMG solution for the Harm spell
- Thread starter Alcamtar
- Start date
Yeah, wow, I'd hate to be limited to poxy spells like, oh, blade barrier, dispel evil, holy word, miracle...
Lucius Foxhound
First Post
Plane Sailing said:
Oh, come on ... Miracles are overrated ...
No, I was trolling. My DM, Tom Cashel, promised me 100 XP every time I posted something in support of the Harm spell. He's a magnificent bastard.
The Fox
Lucius Foxhound said:
Oh, come on ... Miracles are overrated ...
No, I was trolling. My DM, Tom Cashel, promised me 100 XP every time I posted something in support of the Harm spell. He's a magnificent bastard.
The Fox
Thank you for being so truthful, and welcome to my ignore list.
Tom Cashel
First Post
bret said:
Enjoy the comfortable insulation of your humorless world.
EN World, that is.
Re
I don't understand why they didn't just give Harm a will save like Heal when used against undead. Go figure.
Clerics are far from useless without Harm. Clerics are pretty dang powerful if you ask me, just can't do much general damage. Buff them up and they can fight better than a warrior offensively and defensively.
I don't understand why they didn't just give Harm a will save like Heal when used against undead. Go figure.
Clerics are far from useless without Harm. Clerics are pretty dang powerful if you ask me, just can't do much general damage. Buff them up and they can fight better than a warrior offensively and defensively.
ok, first off, why would you use HARM against an undead. Harm is the 'reverse' of HEAL therefor it HEALS undead.
2nd both are touch spells. and therefore are touch attacks and generate AoO's.
3rd the amount that Harm (and Heal) effect are based upon the recipient NOT the caster. while it IS often used with HIGH level chariters and USUALLY returns alot of hitpoints this is just player maximization.
4th your not looking at the progresion of the healling sphere. the last spell that provides xd8 healling is 4th. while 5th does have healling circle this is a form of mass heal and doesn't relate to what your talking about. 5th is also the first level that cleics get a spell that combats death itself (raise dead)
5th you haven't looked the realative power comparason of Heal and Harm...Heal as writin is more powerfull then Harm...does this mean that Harm should be a lower spell?
6th you also haven't looked at the realationship of these spells as they have progressed throught the D&D universe... remember that cleics only had spells UP TO 7TH LEVEL. so a sixth level spell was pretty sweet.
7th you ALWAYS need to exercise caution when limiting a spell WITHOUT looking at higher level versions of the same spell. this will show you DESIGNERS INTENT. and in this case its was CLEARLY the intent of the designers that heal AND harm do EXACTLY what they do at the level they do it.
proof..you ask for proof on the last statement..ok....the 8th level cleric spell MASS HEAL supports this claim.
now if you WANT to invoke house rules limiting these spells, fine. I HIGHLY recomend NOT. You see the real reason this is problem for most DM's is they are traped in the ME vs THEM attitude. this shows that YOU have bigger problems then these spells. I would recomend re reading the DMG in particular those sections that deal with DMing pitfalls. i think you may be falling into one.
iso
"...no matter how hard they try they can't stop us now!"
2nd both are touch spells. and therefore are touch attacks and generate AoO's.
3rd the amount that Harm (and Heal) effect are based upon the recipient NOT the caster. while it IS often used with HIGH level chariters and USUALLY returns alot of hitpoints this is just player maximization.
4th your not looking at the progresion of the healling sphere. the last spell that provides xd8 healling is 4th. while 5th does have healling circle this is a form of mass heal and doesn't relate to what your talking about. 5th is also the first level that cleics get a spell that combats death itself (raise dead)
5th you haven't looked the realative power comparason of Heal and Harm...Heal as writin is more powerfull then Harm...does this mean that Harm should be a lower spell?
6th you also haven't looked at the realationship of these spells as they have progressed throught the D&D universe... remember that cleics only had spells UP TO 7TH LEVEL. so a sixth level spell was pretty sweet.
7th you ALWAYS need to exercise caution when limiting a spell WITHOUT looking at higher level versions of the same spell. this will show you DESIGNERS INTENT. and in this case its was CLEARLY the intent of the designers that heal AND harm do EXACTLY what they do at the level they do it.
proof..you ask for proof on the last statement..ok....the 8th level cleric spell MASS HEAL supports this claim.
now if you WANT to invoke house rules limiting these spells, fine. I HIGHLY recomend NOT. You see the real reason this is problem for most DM's is they are traped in the ME vs THEM attitude. this shows that YOU have bigger problems then these spells. I would recomend re reading the DMG in particular those sections that deal with DMing pitfalls. i think you may be falling into one.
iso
"...no matter how hard they try they can't stop us now!"
IceBear
Explorer
When you cast a touch spell, you are considered armed for the purpose of the touch attack, so you don't suffer an AoO.
I, personally, don't like it that I almost have to have an evil cleric around in order to make the climatic battle, well, climatic. I like having a dragon, arcane caster, heck, even an evil warlord as the Big Bad. Since none of them can cast Heal, I don't like what happens when they are hit with a Harm spell. And despite what you think about ME vs THEM, my players actually appreciate tough, climatic battles. They tend to get bored when things are too easy - to the point of neutering themselves by not using certain items, etc when it makes things too easy.
IceBear
I, personally, don't like it that I almost have to have an evil cleric around in order to make the climatic battle, well, climatic. I like having a dragon, arcane caster, heck, even an evil warlord as the Big Bad. Since none of them can cast Heal, I don't like what happens when they are hit with a Harm spell. And despite what you think about ME vs THEM, my players actually appreciate tough, climatic battles. They tend to get bored when things are too easy - to the point of neutering themselves by not using certain items, etc when it makes things too easy.
IceBear
Last edited:
daemonslye
First Post
A quick question:
Greater Glyph + Harm?
Placed on an entrance before a battle/ambush
(holy smite, etc) could cause a mutiny by the player
that goes in first.
Is this a legal use of both spells?
~D
Greater Glyph + Harm?
Placed on an entrance before a battle/ambush
(holy smite, etc) could cause a mutiny by the player
that goes in first.
Is this a legal use of both spells?
~D
ConcreteBuddha
First Post
Isollae said:
Then why isn't there an 8th level spell called Mass Harm?
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