DMing an Epic Destiny Campaign

[Spibb]

I'm sure there's already threads on this so sorry for the repost.

Anywho, I'm a first time DM and my group finally reached the Epic Destiny tier last session with the conclusion of defeating their villain since the 5th level. However I'm now facing a bit of writer's block and I don't know what to do for Epic Destiny.

Im having trouble thinking of a plot that seems epic enough and most of my ideas end up being heroic tier plots placed in the astral sea or something.

So does anyone have tips for how to DM the epic destiny better?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Epic tier has seen very little official support, and the communities here and at the wizards site aren't exactly buzzing with folks talking about their epic campaigns.

The game should hold together, by the numbers, just fine at epic, though, so the real challenge is the one you face: getting the 'feel' and story elements right.

Some things that might help:

Look at the epic destiny of each PC. What have the players told you about why they have those destinies? Have they been tied into backstory, or into the story you've told so far?

You've had a unifying theme through most of your campaign - that nemesis villain that's plagued them for 15 levels. I figure there's got to have been some foreshadowing, plot hooks or set-up in all that time with such a major villain figure that might point the way to Epic. (Whatever it is, it should build on the villain's defeat, rather than negate the victory - that's a major storytelling gaffe that even professional writers seem to make all the time).

Alternately, you could go for a complete change of tone and scale. Just how grand were this villains schemes? Maybe now that they've foiled his plots they find an even greater threat that has nothing to do with him. Maybe it's not even an immediate threat to the kingdom or world they saved from the villain, but their success has brought them to the attention of others who need their help.

You could also make the epic-ness about the PCs, themselves. Again, this depends on their destinies. A Demigod or Legendary Monarch has some campaign-driving potential as it seeks apotheosis or ushers in a golden age. Other EDs are less specific in themselves.


Finally, just tell us about your campaign. Just putting it into words may help you think of ways to continue it.

 

[Quickleaf]

Good advice from Tony as usual

Mike Shea's Sly Flourish blog has some great insight into epic games.

Here's my thought: Are your players ready and willing for a playstyle change or do they just want to raid dungeons in the astral plane? I would love to have a group mature enough (as gamers) to enjoy the former, but IME most players fall into the later camp.

EDIT: It would be fun to start the game with the PCs dealing with all the BBEG's lackeys; this could include meting out punishments, hearing pleas for mercy, and having to make tough calls about culpability (with the possibility for a plot twist).

 

[Kantru]

Sly Flourish has a whole book, print and pdf on running epic tier. Quite well written. Hopes exist that WotC will put out the Epic tier content before shutting down 4e in favor of D&DNext. Back at 2010 GenCon, WotC stated they were letting more players get to Epic tier before releasing the DMG3 focusing on Epic. Hoping to see that content in a series of DDI articles, or a DMG3

 

[Riastlin]

Excellent ideas from Vargas as already stated. Its hard to give specifics without knowing more about your campaign though.

As a general rule though, I personally kind of take the approach of "Go big or go home" with epic tier (of course my players still have not gotten there as they'll only hit 18th next session). The way I see it though is that by the end of the tier (i.e. campaign), the PCs should have the opportunity to completely reshape (or maintain) the face of the campaign setting.

Maybe this is simply overthrowing the evil rulers and replacing them with kindly ones (maybe even the PCs each get their own kingdom). Perhaps it means taking out an evil god, or intervening in a war between the gods, maybe even requiring one or more PCs to fill a void in the cosmology that is created by the war. Or maybe they just need to delve into the very depths of the Abyss to overthrow that demon prince whose minions have been plaguing the party throughout the campaign.

The thing is, you really are only limited by your imagination here. The PCs should definitely be bringing the fight to their enemies, and fighting them on their enemies' home turf (imho). Don't be afraid to throw the kitchen sink at them either. Particularly by about mid-epic tier, the party will have a plethora of ways to stave off death and pull themselves out of the fire that in some respects you can throw parts of the rule book out the window -- though obviously this has a lot to do with what type of players your group is and how much they optimize and synergize.

Most importantly: have fun!