Dms, dont you wish

[Aaron L]

The fewer rules, the more inconsistancy, and the more room for DM mistakes. With more rules, you don't have to be a "master" storyteller to DM, and you can rely on the rules to cover things you wouldn't be able to yourself. I would NEVER want to run a game that didn't have a complete set of rules and relyed upon ME to rule on every other thing.

 

[DragonLancer]

Why ever not? Leaving everything until the session is over just means more potential for massive screwage to be retconned.

Because it interferes and slows the game. At the end of the day, the DM has final authority over the game. So rather than cause a hassle during the game, just keep it till afterwards. Its not such a big deal.

 

[Ourph]

I'm of the opinion that players should always know all the rules pertaining to their character's abilities - and I mean that sentence both ways, since players who don't know the rules that govern their PC's capabilities frustrate me as a fellow player, much less as a DM.

I was thinking more along the lines of how poison works, mechanically.

As a player, all you really need to know if that you've been poisoned and you seem to be getting sicker. You need to do something about it. You don't need to know that you get an initial save and another save a minute later, each time for xdy ability damage.

 

[jmucchiello]

I was thinking more along the lines of how poison works, mechanically.

As a player, all you really need to know if that you've been poisoned and you seem to be getting sicker. You need to do something about it. You don't need to know that you get an initial save and another save a minute later, each time for xdy ability damage.

No, the players should understand how poison works. They should know the consequences of failing or succeeding at a die roll. Some characters have the ability to modify a die roll be expending limited resources. If they don't know the consequence of the roll they cannot evaluate whether or not to use the limited resource. Should you take the bear's endurance potion after being poisoned? Well, if you are worried about making that second saving throw, maybe you should.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Dont you wish(No funny remarks about a Wish spell are to be in this thread ) that there were not so much rules. And that more could just be left up to judgement calls, that your players did not argue about you with. I ahve never played any other edition but 3.0. But I wish there was a Rules-lite version of D&D. It is more like my players run the game than I do.

I like the codified ruleset...I'd rather the manual tell me how to do things than have to whip it up on the spot.

 

[Corinth]

I love the current state of the rules. I let the game run itself while I concentrate upon those elements that require a human intelligence; I ask only that my players learn those rules that they require to play their character, and I am eager to help them to organize that subset of information better.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

No, the players should understand how poison works. They should know the consequences of failing or succeeding at a die roll. Some characters have the ability to modify a die roll be expending limited resources. If they don't know the consequence of the roll they cannot evaluate whether or not to use the limited resource. Should you take the bear's endurance potion after being poisoned? Well, if you are worried about making that second saving throw, maybe you should.

Not to mention that players definitely should know when their character has taken 6 points of Constitution damage from poison - that's a significant percentage of any character's hit points. Same for Strength, Dexterity - and the mental stats, even more so! "You try to cast teleport but, uh, you can't."

"Why not?"

". . . you don't know. Your thoughts are muddy, which is something you have not noticed before now."

Blah.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The DM has made a call for this situation, don't argue with him or try and point rules out. Do so after the game. What the DM says goes.

Bull. The DM is the arbiter of the rules, he's not my boss. If I think he's misused a rule, I'll check it. If he has misused a rule, I'll mention it. Then the ball's in his court. I never argue with a DM once he has made a ruling, but I do want to know that he's actually making a ruling, rather than a mistake.

As a DM, I want the same from my players. Nothing sucks worse than my mistake leading to a TPK because I didn't remember a certain passage in a spell description, or accidentally gave the giant an AoO when he shouldn't have gotten one. If anyone at the table thinks we've got something wrong, we check it, I make a ruling, then we move on. Eventually, our mistakes become very few as a result.

 

[FireLance]

You don't need extensive rules if you have a DM that will always rule the same way in the same circumstances, or if you don't mind a bit of inconsistency.

You don't need to know the rules if your DM is always able to take into account every circumstance and modifier in the game, or if you don't mind a bit of inconsistency.

You don't need to interrupt the flow of the game to point out a possible incorrect ruling by the DM if your DM always knows what he is doing, or if you don't mind a bit of inconsistency.

Some people, including myself, need consistency to enjoy a game. It's not a case of rules lawyering or player vs DM or challenging his authority. It's just a personal playstyle preference. To me, a rule that is incorrectly or inconsistently applied is like a gaping plot hole or an anachronistic prop. It just affects my enjoyment of the game.

 

[RFisher]

Because it interferes and slows the game.

I'm trying to imagine a session in which rules discussion slows the game more than puns, movie quotes, & general tangenting. If I could imagine that, I don't think it'd be much fun.

There was a time when arguing about the rules constituted a big part of my enjoyment of the game. So, I couldn't tell a group that pausing the game to argue rules is wrong. If I'm the only one at the table who enjoys rule arguments, though, I'd try to avoid them.

These days, during the game, I tend to let matters drop after stating my opinion. I guess I just don't get as much enjoyment out of rules arguments as I once did.