DMs:ever have player get mad at you for their dumb decision

[Shadoe's Lady]

I think sometimes players have the tendency to think as themselves and not their characters. While the character knows darn well it's time to cut and run, the player is thinking "He wouldn't put this here if we couldn't kick its butt." That's what he gets for not staying in character.

 

[Dr. NRG]

As a player, I have been guilty of these things (well, except maybe the midgets in pyjamas thing).

I think that a [knowledge: monster] skill might be a fine addition to the game. It would prevent the virtual necessity of using the [player knowledge: monster manual] skill, which I specifically avoid due to metagame complications and problems.

In some sense, though. The tone of a campaign is set by the DM. If, in the original case, the party had never run into a combat they couldn't win, then the DM was setting them up. If they regularly ran into enemies beyond their power to defeat, then the players simply acted foolishly, or didn't comprehend the magnitude of the threat.

I believe that players sometimes get conditioned by playing modules appropriate to their class level. In essence, getting used to running into challenges that are right at the CR you can take makes you expect that every encounter will be at or below your CR. Players who are accustomed to this tend to charge into battle with only a slight amount of fear that they'll get their butts handed to them.

Condition your players to carefully examining situations and relying on tactical planning with careful encounter planning and they will (probably, eventually) stop just charging in there.

NRG

 

[Kaji]

Boy, that sounds sensible

I think that a [knowledge: monster] skill might be a fine addition to the game. It would prevent the virtual necessity of using the [player knowledge: monster manual] skill, which I specifically avoid due to metagame complications and problems.

[snip]
Condition your players to carefully examining situations and relying on tactical planning with careful encounter planning and they will (probably, eventually) stop just charging in there.

NRG

I've been messing around with the same idea for a while now, but have not yet put it into play. It would make it a lot easier when the PC's start stopping out of reach of a Ogre, and you say "Why did you do that"? Make a check to see if your lad has ever heard of the Long Arms of The Evil Hill People. I'd let a Bard use Bardic Knowledge for this kind of thing, but a skill to put points into would be a nice addition. I'd even give out a few ranks every level or so to relect whatever they have encountered.

As to you sensible sounding comments that over time they'll figure it out, I'm sure you're right, but I wasn't thinking more than 50 years or so

 

[clark411]

Tactically, he played poorly and suffered for it- plain and simple. As long as the player is capable of making informed decisions as has been said above (Ie roughly knowing how bad these things are to his health) then he can make "dumb" choices which should indeed result in exactly the appropriate response- thwackage and maybe death. However, if he doesn't know the rules well enough to consider doing a double move, or he's unaware of reach and things (hard to think this at 11th but still) then he could feel frustrated at his seeming inability to do anything against these things without almost dying instantly. He also might only equate experience as a result from killing monsters if that's how you tend to run things... players will show canny pavlovian qualities if the only reward you give them is setting their attitudes to kill and loot. I love the spycraft set up for missions as an alternative with primary missions, + or - 10% for completed or failed objectives. In that scenario, it doesn't seem like combatting the enemies is a good way of cleaning up and getting the last little morsels of xp in the session (horrible way to think, but it can surprise how players think at times).

One question I have to ask is how he recieved AoOs if his surprise round was moving in to attack them. Was initiative already going and they had simply evaded combat long enough to grab the thing and go, or was he in the right thinking he could try to catch them off guard, and got smacked for it?

 

[DustTC]

Maybe they're just a bit stubborn players like mine. I've pounded them into the ground at several occasions and never once have they retreated. I really, really dislike TPKs, and I'm a bit afraid they've sensed that. Eventhough they know I'm not afraid of killing anyone, they have this weird idea that I'm 'doing rounds' on them, which is totally untrue. There have been multiple dead, but at the time I could deal the finishing blow I always hold back a little and let them come through.

I'm still very much against TPK'ing, but perhaps I'll let someone die a few times in succession just to get the point about safe retreats across (and at least one vocal supporter of them ). Then obviously I'll have one player on my hands who thinks I'm killing him on purpose (and I actually will be, unlike before).

Instilling fear into your players, not an easy job if you ask me .

 

[Kichwas]

Lately I feel like my character is a passenger on that train in the movie Unbreakable... She's on the train, she knows what's going to happen, but there aren't any stops between here and when it will happen.

We've got a few of those gun ho players who have to take on every percieved challenge out there.

Only problem is the DM has an admitted philosophy I agree with:

He puts critters into the world that are there because they should be there. If they're way too tough for us, he won't force us to take them on, and will give us opportunities to turn back and clues that we ought to... But he won't get rid of the critter if we insist on asking for it.

So... my character's on this train, but so far she's failed to find the brakes... I feel that moment coming, because presently we're in the beginning stages of charging a city of Orcs...

And we're a 3rd level party.


When players insist on asking for it, give it to them.

That said, I'm a little erg'd to see somebody use the phrase 'final boss' and expect to be taken seriously.

 

[demiurge1138]

Have my players ever gotten mad at me for their bad judgement? Not yet, but they will soon.

You see, we're at low levels of epic play, and the crazy, violent, increasingly Chaotic Evil barbarian wants to hire himself (and the party in tow) out as mercs to Demogorgon, the ol' Prince of Demons himself

Can't wait to see the looks on their faces when it doesn't turn out all sunshine and flowers.

Demiurge out.

 

[Gundark]

final boss and the aoo

few people have asked questions about the aoo that the creatures took. Basically how it went down is that I presented a situation that the players thought was the showdown of the adventure or the "final boss". They wasted a lot of their good spells in the encounter ( the ones you save when something big comes along). They defeated the opposition and rescued the person they were after ( a love interest of one of the PCs). As they were leaving the Orge mage ( the real "final boss") and a earth elemental appeared as the PCs were leaving. They had the opportunity to escape to fight another day. But because I know my Players I knew that they would try to fight it out. The cleric in question had cast the spell that gives them a base attack of a fighter, and was at full HP and has a high AC (27), with a stoneskin spell in effect. So I think he was feeling a little cocky. The Elemental was between him and the Orge mage. Because the cleric was hasted he had enough movement to take 2 move actions which allowed him to get to and attack the orge mage with his extra partial action. The elemental has a 15 foot reach and took his aoo hitting (+27) and doing damage. The orge mage has a 10 foot reach and took his aoo when the cleric entered his area, also doing damage. The next turn the elemental moved in 5 feet and took a full round action hitting 3 out the 4 attacks( one critcal hit). The cleric after taking lots of damage decided to get out of there on his next turn. again drawing aoo from both creatures (another critical from the elemental) at which point he got a little upset. Hopefully that clears it up a bit.

 

[2WS-Steve]

Sometimes players get mad at *you* because you're rolling too well. Usually after they get home they'll realize the dice weren't going their way and when the dice don't go their way earth elementals get 3 out of 4 hits with one of them being a crit. Hopefully then they'll convert the encounter into one of those memorable ones where they got pasted, just like they have memorable encounters when they paste the bad guys with good dice rolls.

My players still remember the time when they fought the luckiest Tharkholdu in the universe and the time when one of them failed 3 activation rolls in a row in front of Xiombarg.