Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
The vast majority of people would still be decent. The trouble makers would still make trouble. Laws don't actually prevent crime. They exist to punish it.So, you would say that in a place with no rules and no laws, people would act the exact same as in a place with rules and laws? The only difference is the character of the individual.
The power isn't exercised to that degree in typical game play.What you seem to be saying here is that the authority of the DM granted by the game is not part of how the game works. Which seems nonsensical, so could you try and explain this in a way that makes sense?
Dude. There's a reason I went out of my way to say that you're just mistaken(that means not lying in case you needed to know). I mean seriously. I'm getting really, REALLY tired of you misrepresenting me constantly. There was no expectation set about either of us lying.Wow. I let it slide before, but seriously, this is just an incredibly rude position. By making this about you lying (which isn't about at all) you have now set up an expectation that one of us is lying, and it can't be you because you don't lie. And you can't be mistaken, because you understand the game, implying you understand it better than those who disagree with you.
And yes, you quite literally cannot cheat at a game where you control the rules. If you don't understand that, then yes I do understand it better than you do.
I don't know, and I really don't care. Just like I don't know or don't care if there are any other RPGs out there that give DMs the kind of control that D&D does. We're discussing D&D, not any of those other games.Okay, how many of those games still hold a significant market share other than DnD and haven't gone over major revisions? Because the only one I can think of is GURPS and considering the main selling point of that game is ultimate customization, I don't think they really encourage GM supreme authority.
It doesn't matter because 1) the dozens games I've played in were fun for all of the players, and 2) many of those players have played many other RPGs and so they HAVE played in those kinds of games and still enjoyed the games where the DM has the authority, which proves that 3) it's not the level of authority the DM holds that makes a game good or not.Well, you have a massively biased perception. You have literally never been in any other type of game, so how would you know if a game where that was the case wouldn't be better? You are basically arguing "I've been blind from birth, so I know that Red is ugly and so it is going to take a lot of evidence to prove me wrong."
Yes. My perception of hundreds of happy players shows that there is no problem.You've literally never seen the other side, so of course your perception would be that there is no problem.
And what does this have to do with what I said? Show me where the player above and the other players left the OP's game and then got called entitled by him. I'll wait for you to show me that equivalence to what I said, and not the False Equivalence above.Really? Because we have a DM here asking for advice, and showing a player who seems to my eye to simply be a little overly analytical and too excited to stop himself from talking out loud. He's been implied to be entitled and toxic to the game by at least three posters I believe.
It's not easy at all. Especially since the bolded message isn't even being sent here. How about you stick to what's actually being argued, instead of creating fiction and then attributing it to me?But it is such a small step to make, such a small slip of typing. I should know, I've had to be very very careful, because it is very easy to equate the two things. How easy is it for someone to hear, repeatedly "you can never cheat. Everything you do to improve the game is approved" and get the message "you can do no wrong."?
I have done it. There have been times where I rolled for something out in front of them(I do it sometimes) and then decided on a course and told them never mind, X happens. That's me deciding to ignore what was rolled and effectively change it to the result I decided on. 0 issues so far.I think a lot of us instinctually realize that the limits exist. It's why most people only fudge die rolls the players can't see. Because they know it would be unacceptable to do so in front of the players. I mean, try it sometime Max. You and your table believe in the ultimate unquestioned authority of the DM. Spend a session rolling dice in the open, ignoring those dice and just making up the answers you want. See how long that lasts.