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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8741710" data-attributes="member: 23751">As you say, it only really happens at high level. It's so rare, that those few times that it comes up it will be unlikely that the 20 is dropped anyway, but the excitement and tension those rolls engender are fantastic.The DM says you need a 20 to make the save.&nbsp; You're facing a big, bad evil thing from beyond the universe. If you fail, really bad or icky stuff will happen.&nbsp; You slowly reach for your d20 and as you do, everyone at the table leans forward to see what the roll will be. If the 20 lands, cheers will go up from around the table.&nbsp; Moments like that stick in memory.&nbsp; They're tales still told 10 or 20 years later in some groups.Even Orcus really doesn't have any.&nbsp; The Wand of Orcus has a save DC of 18.&nbsp; His personal spell DC is Cha 23, but when we look at his spells we see chill touch, detect magic, create undead, dispel magic and time stop, none of which have saves.&nbsp; SHOULD Orcus have some over 20 saves?&nbsp; I think so, but apparently WotC didn't.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8741710, member: 23751"] As you say, it only really happens at high level. It's so rare, that those few times that it comes up it will be unlikely that the 20 is dropped anyway, but the excitement and tension those rolls engender are fantastic. The DM says you need a 20 to make the save. You're facing a big, bad evil thing from beyond the universe. If you fail, really bad or icky stuff will happen. You slowly reach for your d20 and as you do, everyone at the table leans forward to see what the roll will be. If the 20 lands, cheers will go up from around the table. Moments like that stick in memory. They're tales still told 10 or 20 years later in some groups. Even Orcus really doesn't have any. The Wand of Orcus has a save DC of 18. His personal spell DC is Cha 23, but when we look at his spells we see chill touch, detect magic, create undead, dispel magic and time stop, none of which have saves. SHOULD Orcus have some over 20 saves? I think so, but apparently WotC didn't. [/QUOTE]

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