DMs only: Stop me from killing off all my players
- Thread starter italianranma
- Start date
robberbaron
First Post
If they're too dumb to know when they should be running away they deserve to die.
Don't feel bad about it, maybe they'll learn the next time around.
Don't feel bad about it, maybe they'll learn the next time around.
I agree with Kahuna - there may well be logical in-game reasons why someone might want to rescue Good PCs, it's much less likely (though not totally impossible*) anyone will want to rescue Evil PCs. Them's the breaks.
*Occasionally the evil forces may wish to aquire an evil 'Champion' of immense power, so they may attempt to rescue/recover such an ultra-powerful evil character (this happens in fiction a fair bit). But groups of mid-level evil PCs are inherently dispensable. Certainly no one is going to rescue some 4th levellers IMO.
*Occasionally the evil forces may wish to aquire an evil 'Champion' of immense power, so they may attempt to rescue/recover such an ultra-powerful evil character (this happens in fiction a fair bit). But groups of mid-level evil PCs are inherently dispensable. Certainly no one is going to rescue some 4th levellers IMO.
If they choose to attack, play out the combat and let the dice fall where they may. However, maybe, *just* maybe, they'll pull it off. I had a DM way back where the party got in over their heads (we were mainly 3rd/4th level) against a 7th level necro and we came to about 4hps of killing him. In the end, my char ran away and the rest were captured or killed...*sigh*.
Anyway, play out the combat, and if they die, perhaps they won't be as stupid next time. Ensure that they have full warning in advance of his powers- show him animating dead, or using some other 4th level spell. If they still attack, play out the combat like any other.
Anyway, play out the combat, and if they die, perhaps they won't be as stupid next time. Ensure that they have full warning in advance of his powers- show him animating dead, or using some other 4th level spell. If they still attack, play out the combat like any other.
Ghostknight
First Post
While I agree that the suggestions here are good, there is a mile stick I use when it comes to this question - What is if going to do tot he group?
If a TPK is likely to have the group rebel and go off to look for another game, what is the point of doing it? The aim of the game is to have fun. Yep, teach the characters a lesson but use a bit of DM fiat to get them out of there alive, albeit stomped on and in a bad way, if that is what is necessary to keep the group going.
I am all in favor of letting characters get their just dues, but sometimes it is more prudent to let players off the hook for the sake of the group. (Especially when said players are inexperienced or used to munchkin type games which sounds like the case. Bring them gently into the light, a push may only encourage them further into the dark side
)
If a TPK is likely to have the group rebel and go off to look for another game, what is the point of doing it? The aim of the game is to have fun. Yep, teach the characters a lesson but use a bit of DM fiat to get them out of there alive, albeit stomped on and in a bad way, if that is what is necessary to keep the group going.
I am all in favor of letting characters get their just dues, but sometimes it is more prudent to let players off the hook for the sake of the group. (Especially when said players are inexperienced or used to munchkin type games which sounds like the case. Bring them gently into the light, a push may only encourage them further into the dark side
)
uzagi_akimbo
First Post
Al said:
I would say - give them one last fair warning, may be by having them meet the shattered/broken (and above all memorable !) remnants of some other wiseguys who went up against the BBEG before - and make it obvious what happened to them... If they do not believe in prophetic omens, well, go ahead. Like some beggars who barely made it out but left their limbs behind, or who went insane after having to kill their friends who turned into ghouls, spawns of Kyuss or whatever and went for their brains/juices/marrow.
But, whatever you do - get them with style !
That means : Do the TPK in such a way that they will certainly remember who it was who took them down, and will still recall the gory details years from now. Because a TPK done for 'educational' reasons is no good if it happens and no-one even learns from it.
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
So go for gruesome AND humilliating - like draining all the STR out of characters with "Rays of Exhaustion", then have them get captured, sorrily abused and finally baked and eaten by Goblins, make individuals run screaming from the fight only to be taken down cornered, alone and weeping in the dark, "Web" them, than have them being attacked by shadows while floundering helpless, drain their levels, paralyse them and get dragged off into the dark by some ghouls while still alive..... and if you kill and finally reanimate them, as well, great ! Even better if you can send them against a possible "follow-up" group or against something/someone they care for. For extra gruesomeness - consult the 'Book of Vile Darkness' and stuff like "liquid pain" etc. Sacrifying (of themselves) the hapless PCs to power some evil spell or appease some entity might just be memorable enough...
If you go for the prisoner approach - make certain to "disarm" casters and disable the characters while they are his prisoners, maybe even by breaking limbs, keeping them drugged/poisoned or doing Stat-damage.
And - by all means drive home the point, that even if you are 'evil', someone else out there can (and will ) match you in depravity each and every step you take - as well as surpass you.
And you knew it - and were so dumb to ignore it ! When you dance with the devil, you dance until the music is _over_ !
So IF you are going to slaughter them, make it a night to remember for everyone.
Last edited:
Oscar carramiñana
First Post
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Oscar carramiñana
First Post
Mallus said:
My XP with evil party end always equal all party killed by himself in stupid discussions about this or these item is mine or yours ... or kill the Npc what only wants help yours... the evils for DM. The PC's must be Heroes not villains
Some quick uses for stupid minions [taken from 'The Complete Idiots Guide to Evil']Parlan said:
1) As patsies/fall guys.
2) Higher level cannon fodder.
3) Suicide missions [particularly nice if said minions are so overconfident they don't recognize the mission as suidical].
4) Agents provocateur [see above].
And that's just off the top of my head.
Mind you, I was never saying that the DM should give the PC's a [continuing] break. My points were that 1) if the DM chooses too, there are any number of ways of plotting/rationalizing an evil group being rescued from their own stupidity and 2) the decision to introduce improbably beneficial events/NPC's into the game should have nothing to do with the groups' alignment. Villians should be as lucky as heroes, if villians are your protagonists.
Cheiromancer
Adventurer
How attached are they to their characters? Not very, I'd imagine, if they are so willing to put them at risk.
So their response to a TPK might well be "Yay! New characters!"
Even if this is not true, if they believe that you will not let their characters die it takes the sense of risk out of the game. And that makes things kinda boring. Whatever an evil campaign should be, it should not be boring!
And, finally, just because it is an evil campaign doesn't mean that it should lack a moral compass. If you can demonstrate that sometimes bad things happen to bad people... well, I think that would be a good thing.
So three reasons not to hold back from a TPK. They've been warned- let the dice fall where they may.
Besides, they might surprise you. PCs can sometimes pull off incredible things. Watching them defeat your "undefeatable" villain is one of the funnest parts of DMing. Give them the chance to surprise you!
So their response to a TPK might well be "Yay! New characters!"
Even if this is not true, if they believe that you will not let their characters die it takes the sense of risk out of the game. And that makes things kinda boring. Whatever an evil campaign should be, it should not be boring!
And, finally, just because it is an evil campaign doesn't mean that it should lack a moral compass. If you can demonstrate that sometimes bad things happen to bad people... well, I think that would be a good thing.
So three reasons not to hold back from a TPK. They've been warned- let the dice fall where they may.
Besides, they might surprise you. PCs can sometimes pull off incredible things. Watching them defeat your "undefeatable" villain is one of the funnest parts of DMing. Give them the chance to surprise you!
