DM's perspective: How to deal with the flaming sphere

[DrSpunj]

My problem with it is how does it move? Can it move through allies or enemies squares?

I'm wondering this, too. Given that the errata states, IIRC, that it "occupies" a square I've been treating as if it effectively fills the entire square (more because of the heat & fire that it gives off than the size I'm imagining I guess) and that it cannot move through allies or enemies nor can they move through its square.

If someone has something more official to offer I'd appreciate the reference.

Thanks

 

[IanArgent]

Run more encounters per adventuring day, use many NPCs per encounter, and use larger encounter spaces.

The wizard can only use it once (maybe twice, depending on items) per day. If you can force the Wizard to move, he can't move the sphere. And the NPCs want room to spread out.

 

[DeathMutant]

I'm wondering this, too. Given that the errata states, IIRC, that it "occupies" a square I've been treating as if it effectively fills the entire square (more because of the heat & fire that it gives off than the size I'm imagining I guess) and that it cannot move through allies or enemies nor can they move through its square.

If someone has something more official to offer I'd appreciate the reference.

Thanks

I rule it similiarly, as a medium-sized object, except that it doesn't fill the square for purposes of "hard corners." As an object, I allow powers to push, pull and slide it -- if they can affect objects -- but the sphere itself cannot be damaged.

I also rule that the caster must always have LoE (but LoS is not required) to move it. It does not fly -- or even hover -- because it has no Fly speed. It moves like a creature except that it ignores difficult terrain and can move over liquid as if it "swims" at its Move speed; it cannot submerge.

 

[Nail]

My problem with it is how does it move? Can it move through allies or enemies squares?

I'm wondering this, too. Given that the errata states, IIRC, that it "occupies" a square I've been treating as if it effectively fills the entire square (more because of the heat & fire that it gives off than the size I'm imagining I guess) and that it cannot move through allies or enemies nor can they move through its square.

#1) A Flaming Sphere has the conjuration keyword.

#2) Conjurations have the property that (PH, p. 59) "allies of the conjuration’s creator can move through the space a conjuration occupies, but enemies can’t."

#3) Conjurations "[do] not occupy any squares" (errata 8-11-08).

Additionally, the errata removed the requirement of conjuring the Flaming Sphere in an unoccupied square. Interesting.....

 

[DrSpunj]

#1) A Flaming Sphere has the conjuration keyword.

#2) Conjurations have the property that (PH, p. 59) "allies of the conjuration’s creator can move through the space a conjuration occupies, but enemies can’t."

#3) Conjurations "[do] not occupy any squares" (errata 8-11-08).

Additionally, the errata removed the requirement of conjuring the Flaming Sphere in an unoccupied square. Interesting.....

Thanks for this as I don't have my books here at work, but what exactly does "occupies" mean since the current errata downloaded from WotC has this for the Flaming Sphere entry (emphasis mine):

Effect: You conjure a Medium flaming sphere that occupies a square within range, and the sphere attacks. Any creature that starts its turn adjacent to the sphere takes 1d4 + Intelligence modifier fire damage. As a move action, you can move the sphere 6 squares.

Here we have the errata contradicting itself, don't we? The specific entry says "occupies" while the errata'd Conjuration section says they don't? And I don't find that Conjuration entry in the PHB errata after a quick scan, btw.

EDIT: Found this with a search of the errata which helps clarify this part (emphasis mine):

“Unless a power description says otherwise, a conjuration cannot be attacked or physically affected, and a conjuration does not occupy any squares.”

So let me slightly revise my question above: Why does it matter that it "occupies" a square? What mechanical meaning does that have?

Finally, if they removed the requirement about needing to conjure it in an unoccupied square, does that mean that's legal to do? Or was it unnecessary and complicating text given that it's described as illegal under the Conjuration heading already?

I'm seeing this spell both as a DM & as a player, so I'm very interested in getting these specifics down.

Thanks​

 

[Nail]

Here we have the errata contradicting itself, don't we?

Hmmm....I think it's easiest to say - as you have - that "specific over-rides general", and the Flaming Sphere occupies a space.

If so, then no other creature can occupy that square too (unless the Flaming Sphere becomes helpless ). (Is it possible for tiny creatures to ocupy the same square as a Flaming Sphere?) Allies can pass through the square, while enemies can't.

 

[DrSpunj]

Alright, so what about the "conjuring in an occupied square" bit you brought up? Is it legal to conjure it in the orc's square? And if it is, would the Wizard have to spend an action to move it out of that square if the Orc wasn't literally toasted to death since they can't both legally occupy the same square?

Or does the Conjuration section or some other section clarify what happens here so they just removed unnecessary text from the entry with the errata?

 

[Milambus]

So let me slightly revise my question above: Why does it matter that it "occupies" a square? What mechanical meaning does that have?

Things that occupy space can block off hallways/doors, prevent people from moving into a flank, etc.

 

[Griogre]

#1) A Flaming Sphere has the conjuration keyword.

#2) Conjurations have the property that (PH, p. 59) "allies of the conjuration’s creator can move through the space a conjuration occupies, but enemies can’t."

#3) Conjurations "[do] not occupy any squares" (errata 8-11-08).

Additionally, the errata removed the requirement of conjuring the Flaming Sphere in an unoccupied square. Interesting.....

Just want to point out #2 is no longer correct. This paragraph was errataed out and *totally replaced* with #3 (#2 was in the paragraph that was replaced):

Conjurations [Revision]
Player's Handbook, page 59
Replace the second paragraph with "Unless a power description says otherwise, a conjuration cannot be attacked or physically affected, and a conjuration does not occupy any squares."

Given this change it was necesary to errata Flaming Sphere to say it *takes* up a space because normally conjurations don't.

Flaming Sphere [Revision]
Player's Handbook, page 160
Move the Effect line above the Target line and replace the text with the following:

Effect: You conjure a Medium flaming sphere that occupies a square within range, and the sphere attacks. Any creature that starts its turn adjacent to the sphere takes 1d4 + Intelligence modifier fire damage. As a move action, you can move the sphere 6 squares.

Thus, the general case is conjurations take up no space, but in the specifice case of flaming sphere it *does* occupy a space.

 

[DrSpunj]

Oooo! Good catch, Griogre!

So with that understood, can the Wizard's allies move through the Sphere's space as they normally would any other ally or not?

My instinct says "no" given that the sphere definitely occupies a square and, well, it's on fire!

So I guess it's not so much that allies couldn't move through the square, just that they'd take damage if they really wanted to do it. My next thought is how much damage should they take? Given the sphere attacks when the Wizard throws it against a target I could see using the Hit dmg (2d6+IntMod) but since an ally is just trying to slide by and not really throwing himself against the Sphere I'd probably allow it at my table with just the Effect dmg (1d4+IntMod).

At least until we get errata or some clarification otherwise. Maybe in Arcane Power?