DND 4E Is different! (Why is that bad?)

[Imban]

Exactly. Heck, I downloaded Pathfinder; it was free, and I was curious to see what they were doing with the system. I've never actually played it, however, and don't intend to.

If you compare the number of people who are willing to pay for Pathfinder to sales of 4E Player's Handbooks, you might get a better sense.

Pathfinder's a bit of a weird case for some of us, too. Because as much as I don't really care for 4e, I haven't even read Pathfinder except for a quick glance-over of the first alpha, because I just don't care about it.

I mean, insofar as it may keep my favorite edition "in print" that's nice, but I have enough 3e material to last me until Judgment Day as it is. So there's also a contingent of people who are active roleplayers, were willing to pay for 3e, aren't willing to pay for Pathfinder, and aren't willing to pay for 4e.

 

[Wootz]

(avoiding huge post)
Later!
Gruns

I agree. I think what makes people think 4e is so limited is the way it's structured. It takes thought to be able to see the vast variety of options you have in 4e, but when you manage it can make for a great payoff.

 

[Dausuul]

We can play there's no 800lbs elephant in the room, but its naive not to think that 80k downloads, 10k in book sales and a consistant saleout among local stores is not a strong indication that a good chunk of d&d fans are detered from 4e.

80K downloads means virtually nothing when the downloads are free. 10K in book sales... well, that depends. Are we talking 10,000 books sold, or $10,000 worth of books sold? Even if it's the former, that's only 2.5% of your stated number (where did you get this one?) of 400,000 gamers.

Consistently selling out in local stores is anecdotal evidence and meaningless, unless you've conducted a survey of local stores across the nation - and even if you have, it doesn't mean much except that the stores have underestimated demand for Pathfinder.

800 pounds is a pretty small elephant.

I have probably talked to 50 or so people since august (face to face) about 4e, some long time players, some newbies, and i've yet heard one person say they liked it. Not one. The fact of the matter is, is that the easy of dming use makes a system where a talented DM is not needed as the system doesn't allow for creativity.

*deep breath, controls irritation*

The system allows for creativity perfectly well. You may not like 4E; that's fine, and there are valid reasons to prefer other editions. But to claim that "the system doesn't allow for creativity" is ridiculous. My group is being quite creative with 4E, thanks.

I'll add that of all the people I've talked to face to face about 4E, every one of them has liked it.

 

[feuer_faust]

Sorry, I'll put it more plainly. The original post that started this thread is bogus, because it revolves around the claim that a major complaint about D&D is that it's different. In truth, most people aren't complaining because they're Luddites who loathe change. They complain because some of those differences are disappointing.

OK, that makes more sense to me. I'm not that big on big words, to be frank.

I suppose it is a case of 'implied truth', then... I say a lot of complaint is about the change, and the casual reader will assume its true. You say its actually from the disappointment, and the casual reader will now assume thats true. Could be both, I doubt either of us have conducted large surveys of the tons of gamers out there.

Either way, the message boards tend to be a vocal minority, as a goodly number of roleplayers don't visit message boards (implied truth again). At least this topic has sparked some interesting points on both sides of the fence.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'll be brief and to my point. A major complaint of DnD 4E is that isn't different, that its not like previous editions. Well, this isn't a new thing, as the races and world in general are different in each edition. So, instead of complaining "why", ask "why not?"

New rules, new races, new setting... so why stick to The Way it Used to Be?

I'm afraid I find it hard to see this thread as anything other than an edition war thread in the making.

Clunk