D&D 5E (2024) DnD 5e designer [Mike Mearls] explains how INDIE RPGs are taking over

[LuisCarlos17f]

You shouldn't forget the international market. D&D has been like a icebreaker ship opening a new path. Only a smaller number of TTRPGs have been translated into other languages.

Indie developers bring fresh and new ideas but don't have the same level of brand power

 

[MacDhomnuill]

100% this. I did a deep dive into Gen Con events, looking at them over a six or seven year period. I'll try to remember to dig it up tomorrow and post some interesting tidbits.

When I worked on D&D, the core challenge was getting people to play the new thing. If we did an adventure or a sourcebook, our goal was to design and market it in a way that got DMs and players to pick it up and start using it. If you play a thing, by definition you need to recruit 2 to 5 other people to take part. That drives so much growth.

During the 4e era, I'd bet good money that more people were playing 3.5 D&D over Pathfinder or 4e.

These days I think third party publishing is also a good metric. Dragonbane is a real sleeper hit, IMO. There's a lot of content being made for it. It's easy to overlook how easy it is to fire up a campaign for a game that has a bunch of PDF adventures at low prices.

Dragonbane has a mountain of 3rd party content, a large dedicated fan base, and it’s easy to write for. It really is a sleeper as I see little “content” on YouTube (check out the AARPGs play through, they have 47 out of 50 episodes up). Free league just expanded their 3rd party license to all their in house (non IP) games as well.

 

[jayoungr]

They used to publish, and I assume they still do, a list of all the RPG event tables booked at GenCon and which game system they were booked for and that is very revealing.

To me, that is a real indicator of market share.

I'm pretty sure D&D proper has regularly been underrepresented at GenCon specifically, relative to number of players "in the wild," since WotC sort of ceded that con to Paizo years ago.

 

[darjr]

I'm pretty sure D&D proper has regularly been underrepresented at GenCon specifically, relative to number of players "in the wild," since WotC sort of ceded that con to Paizo years ago.

Baldman Games runs official D&D there for WotC. I think you can see it in the data. Also I’d bet that it’s more games than official Paizo ones, at least for the last few years.

 

[jayoungr]

Baldman Games runs official D&D there for WotC. I think you can see it in the data. Also I’d bet that it’s more games than official Paizo ones, at least for the last few years.

WotC's own presence at GenCon has been very spotty since at least the 4E era. They were there for the launch of 5E and then didn't come back, announcing that they were going to concentrate on smaller cons instead. I gather they will be there this year, but I think that might be the first time since 2014? And the fact that they outsourced their Adventurer's League games to another company also makes it feel like they just don't care about GenCon. Paizo, on the other hand, is all over the banners, hands out free swag in the dealer's room (at least in some years), etc.

Obviously, D&D still does okay at GenCon. I just suspect WotC's lack of interest means that the numbers aren't necessarily accurate when it comes to overall market share "in the wild."

 

[dave2008]

100% this. I did a deep dive into Gen Con events, looking at them over a six or seven year period. I'll try to remember to dig it up tomorrow and post some interesting tidbits.

When I worked on D&D, the core challenge was getting people to play the new thing. If we did an adventure or a sourcebook, our goal was to design and market it in a way that got DMs and players to pick it up and start using it. If you play a thing, by definition you need to recruit 2 to 5 other people to take part. That drives so much growth.

During the 4e era, I'd bet good money that more people were playing 3.5 D&D over Pathfinder or 4e.

These days I think third party publishing is also a good metric. Dragonbane is a real sleeper hit, IMO. There's a lot of content being made for it. It's easy to overlook how easy it is to fire up a campaign for a game that has a bunch of PDF adventures at low prices.

Mike, can you, or anyone, sell me on what there is to like about Dragonbane? I remember looking into when it first came out and bought it. But something turned me off it and I have never played it. What is there to like about Dragonbane?

 

[Zaukrie]

@mearls ..... Can you share here your very positive thoughts on the new DnD team, please?

 

[SlyFlourish]

Mike, can you, or anyone, sell me on what there is to like about Dragonbane? I remember looking into when it first came out and bought it. But something turned me off it and I have never played it. What is there to like about Dragonbane?

Different Mike but I did a whole review of it! I love Dragonbane.

Short summary:

• Roll under is super fast with no math.
• Initiative is fast.
• Monster design is super simple
• Most monsters are solo monsters with cool options
• The art is awesome
• Character building is fast and intuitive
• Character progression is a lot of fun

 

[SlyFlourish]

I'm always fascinated by these conversations but I always see the goal posts getting moved by people based on what they want to believe. Often it becomes trying to guess what the great uncountable masses are doing in the hobby when no one really has any idea.

Personally, I'm seeing a lot of people in my various circles trying out different games. I'm playing Dragonbane, Daggerheart, and Tales of the Valiant myself with 13th Age, Shadow of the Weird Wizard, and Dolmenwood on the horizon. I'm sure that's not representative of any given community but I think I am seeing, again in the circles I frequent, more GMs expanding out to other RPGs than D&D 2014 or D&D 2024. I think its foolish to think that any given game is going to eclipse D&D in sales or overall play, but I think its also foolish to discount when we see more folks expanding out to other RPGs too (which I think is really good for the hobby).

I also think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of the "RPG Community". There isn't a community. There are lots and lots of little communities with lots of overlap. Some are very big (like D&D players in general) and some could be as small as a single person playing a solo RPG they love. I love how many communities there are in the overall hobby.

I also see arguments about it from the standpoint of "successful" RPG as though that can be defined. I have my nine tiers of succcess (starting at $1 to $10 yearly revenue for tier 1 and ending at $100,000,000 to $999,999,999 for tier 9 (only WOTC is in this tier to my knowledge). Lots of people and lots of companies are successful at just about any of these tiers, so that doesn't matter much either.

I guess my point is that we all make of it what we want because the data is too hard to get our hands around. RPGs are doing great. D&D is probably doing fine. And the hobby itself feels really strong to me, so I'm happy.

 

[ersatzphil]

Different Mike but I did a whole review of it! I love Dragonbane.

Well, as long as we get one of the Mikes.