D&D 5E (2024) DnD 5e designer [Mike Mearls] explains how INDIE RPGs are taking over

[jolt]

It's also not an either/or situation. People play multiple games. One person could account for a seat at D&D, PF2, Daggerheart, and Pirate Borg all at a single convention.

 

[Brendan Byrd]

Well, as long as we get one of the Mikes.

< tangent: silly >
It’s a non-necro open Mike thread!
< /tangent: silly >

 

[Bae'zel]

I mean, yeah D&D doesn't define the hobby for the hardcore hobbyists. But mainstream "normies"? Yeah right, D&D IS the hobby, unfortunately.

And by "Indie" do they mean companies like Free League? Then I agree somewhat. But if they mean amateur Kickstarter 'Zine makers... naw...

 

[darjr]

WotC's own presence at GenCon has been very spotty since at least the 4E era. They were there for the launch of 5E and then didn't come back, announcing that they were going to concentrate on smaller cons instead. I gather they will be there this year, but I think that might be the first time since 2014? And the fact that they outsourced their Adventurer's League games to another company also makes it feel like they just don't care about GenCon. Paizo, on the other hand, is all over the banners, hands out free swag in the dealer's room (at least in some years), etc.

Obviously, D&D still does okay at GenCon. I just suspect WotC's lack of interest means that the numbers aren't necessarily accurate when it comes to overall market share "in the wild."

Last couple of years they’ve been there in force if not with a booth or anything. Just look at threads about it here.

Baldman Games has never wavered. Has been running the wotc D&D areas for a long time, before 4e I think.

 

[Reynard]

I think it is worth pointing out that what people are BUYING may not in fact be the same as what people are PLAYING. So comparing GenCon tables to sales data is not going to be especially useful.

D&D is popular. Every con has D&D games -- both Organized Play and whatever random stuff us con GMs decide to run. But every con I have ever run games at or otherwise attended has also had TONS of non-D&D games on offer. People want to play games other than D&D -- but probably alongside D&D. One group playing D&D does not mean that group won't also play Blades in the Dark or Marvel Multiverse on occasion.

 

[Desdichado]

I think it is worth pointing out that what people are BUYING may not in fact be the same as what people are PLAYING. So comparing GenCon tables to sales data is not going to be especially useful.

D&D is popular. Every con has D&D games -- both Organized Play and whatever random stuff us con GMs decide to run. But every con I have ever run games at or otherwise attended has also had TONS of non-D&D games on offer. People want to play games other than D&D -- but probably alongside D&D. One group playing D&D does not mean that group won't also play Blades in the Dark or Marvel Multiverse on occasion.

Yeah, which is why the data from tables is interesting, but I wonder how much it really matters. By a long shot, most of what I play at home is D&D. By a long shot, most of what I play when I go to cons or other events is NOT D&D, because I'm already playing tons of D&D, and don't get enough of the other games at home. There's a lot of skewing that's going to be involved if we try to extrapolate too much from whatever data we can get our hands on. It's probably not really super representative.

 

[Reynard]

Yeah, which is why the data from tables is interesting, but I wonder how much it really matters. By a long shot, most of what I play at home is D&D. By a long shot, most of what I play when I go to cons or other events is NOT D&D, because I'm already playing tons of D&D, and don't get enough of the other games at home. There's a lot of skewing that's going to be involved if we try to extrapolate too much from whatever data we can get our hands on. It's probably not really super representative.

I still wish there was some sort of TTRPG trade organization that actually tracked data and did surveys for the hobby as a whole. It feels like we are constantly trying to extrapolate from incomplete or potentially sus data.

 

[darjr]

I still wish there was some sort of TTRPG trade organization that actually tracked data and did surveys for the hobby as a whole. It feels like we are constantly trying to extrapolate from incomplete or potentially sus data.

I wish. I wish GAMA would do this.

There are consultants out there that do this for a professionally, but not as analytical as we’d like, I think. I think Mearls is one of those folks.

 

[Reynard]

I wish. I wish GAMA would do this.

There are consultants out there that do this for a professionally, but not as analytical as we’d like, I think. I think Mearls is one of those folks.

It just feels like something that would benefit everyone in the space. But then, i don't actually know anything about the logistics of doing such a thing, or if businesses would even be interested enough to help fund it.

 

[saviirkad]

Personally, I'm seeing a lot of people in my various circles trying out different games. I'm playing Dragonbane, Daggerheart, and Tales of the Valiant myself with 13th Age, Shadow of the Weird Wizard, and Dolmenwood on the horizon. I'm sure that's not representative of any given community but I think I am seeing, again in the circles I frequent, more GMs expanding out to other RPGs than D&D 2014 or D&D 2024.

I was thinking of that when looking at the GenCon numbers. Spots filled are probably not representative of the total number of people, because many were on different days or hours. There were certainly people dipping into the same game more than once or across multiple games. I certainly would be!

Generally speaking, my circles have been very pro-5e, with the 2024 update being the most accepted and liked game system reviewed or played. Even so, my current campaign is Fallout 2d20, and the upcoming games are more 2d20 or The One Ring. I'll shortly be playing Symbaroum and Alien. Not because of D&D fatigue or in response to anything going on, just because our multi-year campaigns have finished or are about to be finished. Perfect time to try something else for a bit while the desire to get back to D&D grows.