Do conditions stack?

[DracoSuave]

For example, reading under Durations (page 278): "If a target is affected by multiple powers that have the same effect but end at different times, the effect with the most time remaining applies." Note, it speaks of a single instance applying, not that all apply individually.

If a power has an effect that applies a condition, then the power's duration determines the effect's duration, which determines the condition's duration.

If an effect has (save ends) then it is considered to have a Conditional Duration. The durations of all conditional duration powers are considered separately. The effect with the most time remaining is the one that you save last against, as the duration is unknown.

The other interpretation is that because the duration is unknown this text cannot apply to it, and you end up with the same conclusion, that each effect is tracked seperately.

If you end the duration of one power, you've not necessarily satisfied the condition for the termination of the other power's duration.


Any argument for or against that does not include consideration of Conditional Duration powers is not looking at the whole picture.

 

[takasi]

OK, so if Cool Power 2 is saved against, then it only removes the weakened condition?

Yes.

Or does it remove the dazed condition as well, even though it only actually added a weakened condition and not dazed and weakened?

The target is already affected by a dazed condition of the same duration (save ends). As a result the second save would now only remove the weakened condition.

 

[eamon]

Durations explicitly state that if multiple powers have the same effect, you take the longest duration. Saving throws say that each round you roll a saving throw against each effect. Crucially, "Sometimes an effect is a single condition or one type of ongoing damage".

I'd say that multiple the duration of multiple overlapping powers is determined by the one against which you save last. I see no evidence that you can pool saving throws at all. The more I read it, the more it seems to me that you simply keep track of each power independently. While they're active, their effects may not stack (that much is clear), but you need to save against each power independently.

Also note that any other ruling becomes very difficult to sustain logically in corner cases. What if a wizard with an orb enters the scene, and casts an overlapping condition or an overlapping ongoing damage? So - if a creature is dazed and weakend (save ends) and a wizard imposes a dazed condition (save ends) - how do you save exactly? This is going to be terribly complicated, and much less straightforward than simply saying you save for each power independently.

I think you should just keep track of each power independently, regardless of any overlap in conditions or ongoing damage. There's no rule which says you should merge saving throws somehow, and it's anything but trivial to do since effects can easily be only partially overlapping or have differing saving throw modifiers. The absence of such a rule, and the fact that the durations section say that the power with the longest duration applies suggests to me that each power is individually saved, even if their effects overlap.

 

[Kzach]

It'd be really nice to get a final word on this that was unambiguously phrased.

 

[RigaMortus2]

To the main question from the OP. Do conditions stack? No, they don't.

However, I do believe effects from powers can stack. Remember that when you encounter a "save ends" effect, this is an effect coming from a power, which causes a condition. You save vs each effect that is affecting you, and if you succeed, you are no longer affected by the effect's condition(s).

So Power A causes dazed and Power B causes dazed and slowed. I am with those who say you need to save against both effects to remove the dazed condition.