Do foes and PCs understand consequences?

What actually happens is "The target knows that attacking you has no possible benefit and potentially severe consequences, so it doesn't attack you. As a result, being an Artful Dodger is meaningless!
Not at all. It did successfully deter the enemy from attacking you.
 

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As stated on p. 57 of the PHB, creatures automatically know the effects of any power used on them.

Didn't this come up before, with some attendant argument about whether or not the various riposte powers were debuff effects applied to the target creature or buff effects applies to the person that used the power? How did that end?
 

Pretty much the conclusion was, if you affect someone with a power, you effectively let them read the power.
If your power is also directly modified by something, such as a feat (so that it now does ongoing damage or whatever), they know that too.

However, they don't know about anything they haven't been affected by as yet.
Such as combat superiority.

Also, an important point is a monster's decision-making process.
There are plenty of players with an average amount of experience in the game, and they make poor choices from time to time.
As a consequence of simply being unfamiliar with a particular set of circumstances.
Monster behaviour should reflect their skillz.
 

Not at all. It did successfully deter the enemy from attacking you.

Dance of Death is not meaningless - it successfully deters the enemy from attacking you.

The Artful Dodger line, which grants a bonus to an event that will never occur, is meaningless.

-Hyp.
 

As stated on p. 57 of the PHB, creatures automatically know the effects of any power used on them.

Ok, fair enough. ANY mark is known regardless. Effects of powers are known.

What about Hellish Rebuke Vs. Dire Radiance. Now if creatures know the result of attacking or getting closer to the enemy automatically. I imagine these powers being very limited.

Riposte Strike does the enemy KNOW it will be attacked if it attacks the rogue?
 

Ok, fair enough. ANY mark is known regardless. Effects of powers are known.

What about Hellish Rebuke Vs. Dire Radiance. Now if creatures know the result of attacking or getting closer to the enemy automatically. I imagine these powers being very limited.

In many cases, the primary purpose of the power is deterence. Let's say we have a group without a defender. Our rogue doesn't want to get pounded without a mark to hinder enemy attacks, so he uses a power of his own to punish attackers.
 

What about Hellish Rebuke Vs. Dire Radiance. Now if creatures know the result of attacking or getting closer to the enemy automatically. I imagine these powers being very limited.

Right.

Riposte Strike does the enemy KNOW it will be attacked if it attacks the rogue?

Right.

At least in the case of Riposte Strike, the enemy might decide "Taking the hit is worth it, to get my own attack in." Better than Dance of Death, where there is no gamble involved - if you use a melee attack on the rogue, it doesn't work. And you are made to attack yourself.

Riposte Strike, the enemy makes a decision - take the consequences in exchange for the potential benefit? Or just let it slide?. Dance of Death, there is no decision. There's no potential benefit, so they'll always forego a melee attack on the rogue.

-Hyp.
 

My thought was that monsters only knew of what you'd actually affected them with so far, not whatever might happen to them in the future due to a power. In other words, Dance of Death doesn't grant the target a prophetic glimpse into the future.

So I was going to argue this on the basis of pure common sense spirit of the rules. But then I went back and re-read the page 57 quote in the Player's Handbook that everyone has been using as though it said, "Using a power on a monster allows that monster to know exactly what you're having for breakfast tomorrow."

Let's read it a bit more carefully, because I was thrilled to discover that it says exactly what I thought should be the case:

"Whenever you affect a creature with a power, that creature knows exactly what you’ve done to it and what conditions you’ve imposed."

Oh, this is lovely. It knows two things:

1) What you've done to it. Not what you're going to do. What actual damage or active effects you've hit it with so far. If you've imposed ongoing damage, or debuffed it, or applied any condition, the monster knows it.

2) What conditions you've imposed. Condition is a specific word with a specific game meaning. Conditions are listed on page 277, and Marked IS one of them. But "subject to some other future harm because of a power" is NOT.

Whatever subsequent things that your power might allow you to do in response to the monster's actions are not something you've "done to it" nor a "condition" imposed on it.

If this wasn't the case, any power related to tricking a monster into doing something would be entirely useless, as your clever trickery could never fool so much as a braindamaged ogre.

But fortunately, the rules and reason align once read carefully. No omniscient gelatinous cubes cunningly evading your masterful tactical tricks anymore!
 

Let's read it a bit more carefully, because I was thrilled to discover that it says exactly what I thought should be the case:

Consider Divine Challenge.

If the target attacks the wrong person in the future, he will take Radiant damage.

It's not ongoing damage; it's not something you've already done; it's not a condition.

Do you feel the target should know about the potential for the Radiant damage if he attacks the wrong target, given that what he knows is "exactly what you’ve done to it and what conditions you’ve imposed"?

-Hyp.
 

My thought was that monsters only knew of what you'd actually affected them with so far, not whatever might happen to them in the future due to a power. In other words, Dance of Death doesn't grant the target a prophetic glimpse into the future.

Standing on the edge of a cliff with someone charging at you isn't a glimpse of the future either, but you're pretty aware of the condition you're in

2) What conditions you've imposed. Condition is a specific word with a specific game meaning. Conditions are listed on page 277, and Marked IS one of them. But "subject to some other future harm because of a power" is NOT.

Condition is also an english word, which is what they're using. Monsters already know what conditions they're under, it's completely pointless to mention it. Also in 4E they don't really bother to define things then use the definition. See... stealth, or attack.
 

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