Bitbrain
Lost in Dark Sun
As a player, the less “gothic horror” the setting feels (and the less werewolves, vampires, and necromancy-and-undead-being-evil is a thing), the more invested I’ll be in your world.
D&D General Do players REALLY care about the game world?
- Thread starter Doc_Klueless
- Start date
As a player, the less “gothic horror” the setting feels (and the less werewolves, vampires, and necromancy-and-undead-being-evil is a thing), the more invested I’ll be in your world.
Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
Players invest the same amount of time in caring about your world as you do in reading the licensing agreement for software before clicking "I Agree."
Aging Bard
Canaith
This is very true, but it seems that there may be a large contingent of new DMs out there who not only resist this, but feel like failures if they cannot design a rich detailed setting. I'm not exaggerating. There was an interesting post by the Angry GM about his patrons expressing exactly this worry, and that anything less than a deep setting would disappoint the players. His point, in the typical Angry way, was that they should just randomly generate a bunch of s*%t for the players to interact with, and then trust the players to interact with the s*%t they like. It's those interactions that build the world, not in advance (Marc_C's point as well).
I care. So do the other players in my group. We must be a rare breed. Though the game world often has a big impact on the over all game and we always integrate the PCs into it as important people. Our games aren’t just a bunch of orphaned murder hobos. Not that other games are, but it does happen. You need family and friends, to come from somewhere and things like that.
We also get a lot of player feedback on the world. We’re free to make a little piece of it our own. The world starts off broad, like there is a dark god in control or something, then players fill in the details. If you get the players involved in building the world and give them the power to make their mark, they’ll get involved and interested. Most of the time anyway. Some people just want to show up and kick ass. Nothing wrong with that. Different players like different things. I’ve just found a group of likeminded people and this is how we approach it.
The other benefit of player input is that it’s less work on you as the DM. You have a table full of people to help out. Take advantage.
We also get a lot of player feedback on the world. We’re free to make a little piece of it our own. The world starts off broad, like there is a dark god in control or something, then players fill in the details. If you get the players involved in building the world and give them the power to make their mark, they’ll get involved and interested. Most of the time anyway. Some people just want to show up and kick ass. Nothing wrong with that. Different players like different things. I’ve just found a group of likeminded people and this is how we approach it.
The other benefit of player input is that it’s less work on you as the DM. You have a table full of people to help out. Take advantage.
Ruin Explorer
Legend
I think this claim re: players not caring is a bit generic. But I agree with your approach re: sharing world background/history. Fury Road is the way to go. Different groups react to different things though, and the same group will engage with some settings and not others. If you know this you can work the setting so it's more/less engaging.
For example, I know with my main group, whether I'm playing or DM'ing, the main thing they engage with is NPCs who actually have a personality and agenda, whether helpful or harmful to them. If those NPCs matter to the setting, they'll engage with the setting more.
One interesting thing I personally noted long ago is that players (in multiple groups) engaged with the Cyberpunk 2020 setting way more than the Shadowrun one, despite the fact that the Shadowrun setting is probably better-constructed and more in-depth, and both are somewhat gonzo cyberpunk settings.
I think this is actually because 2020 is shallower, and more punchy. Like, the very simple stuff going on with each corporation makes it a lot easier to engage with. Ever since then I've kind of seen shallow-ness as an asset in certain elements of setting design.
On the flipside, this seems so specific that it likely only applies to Bitbrain lol. But if you were his DM it would behove you to know this.
Ruin Explorer
Legend
I don't think that's the case at all - you are given a reason to care because:
Which I don't think is really the case in most campaigns, even if the DM would definitely say it was. Large numbers of people run pre-gen campaigns, for example (many of which are high-quality), with stuff like Strahd or Ice Maiden, and that stuff very much doesn't need the PCs to have "friends and family", nor benefits from it, nor does it allow the PCs to really "make a piece of it their own".
Bitbrain
Lost in Dark Sun
1. Yes, it is extremely specific of me. I’m weird like that, but also enough of an adult to simply be honest about it up front and not be an jerk at the table.
2. No such luck. It’s been nothing but ghouls, undead shambling mounds, zombies, werewolves, and vampire spawn since he took over last year. I start running our next campaign in July, so I won’t have to wait too much longer.
jgsugden
Legend
Anytime you group a hugely diverse number of people together and speak about them as if they're all the same, you're doing a disservice.
* Some * players care about the story a lot. They're there to see how the story resolves, and combat, for them, is the randomization that adds to the drame.
* Other* players will never care about the story. They're there to kick butt and invest nothing in the story. As a DM, when I sense these players at my table, I help shift their roles to secondary character storylines. I don't force them to be overly involved, or attentive, even, to the storyline. However, I drop hooks for them all the time. If they decide to bite, I do my best to draw them into the story.
* The majority of the players in my experience* are going to respond to what you give them as a DM at the table, regardless of what you've done away from the table. What do I mean? If you tell a good story, you can draw them in and hook them. If you don't tell a good story at the table, regardless of how well you craft the world, they're not going to bite.
If your PCs are not showing interest in your world, it may not be the world or players that need to change - it might be your delivery at the table. Maybe you're tired. Maybe you're insecure in your delivery. Maybe you've never spent any time learning how to build tension, deliver lines, or do all the other things that give players the rush at the table. After all, DMing is role playing - acting - and all the things that can ruin a good play can disrupt your game as well.
Whether you're struggling or not, self reflection is a good idea. Try recording yourself as a DM and listen to what you're doing. Ask another DM to listen and provide feedback. Watch 'professional' DMs and focus on what they do to draw the players into the game. Ask your players what their favorite stories have been in your games. Try watching Matt Colville, Matt Mercer, or any of those other major DM names talk about what they do and figure out what makes sense for you.
On the other hand, sometimes our world crafting is too convoluted for our own good, and we're driving players away because they feel like they're lost in a sea of lore. If that is what is going on, you need to give them a break,.
Try inserting a (published?) standalone module into your game as a change-of-pace. My method of doing this since the early 1990s has been to use Ravenloft adventures (or something similar). Where the PCs are pulled out of their storyline to do something else with no relationship to their storylines, to the world around them, or anything else they know ... and then after they complete that 4 to 8 session adventure, we drop them back where they were and take the time to recap where they left off (dropping a few hints here and there for things that they've overlooked). When I use Ravenloft for this, I make it seem like a standalone adventure, but I am actually using it as a Lore Dump where the history of the Dreadlord, the Domain, or other elements of the story actually foreshadow things to come in the main campaign - but NONE of if capitalizes upon what they already know. It is introducing information, not using established information. Down the road, they'll realize the powers that be dragged them to Ravenloft to learn, not to try to save XXXXX (which rarely actually works in Ravenloft).
* Some * players care about the story a lot. They're there to see how the story resolves, and combat, for them, is the randomization that adds to the drame.
* Other* players will never care about the story. They're there to kick butt and invest nothing in the story. As a DM, when I sense these players at my table, I help shift their roles to secondary character storylines. I don't force them to be overly involved, or attentive, even, to the storyline. However, I drop hooks for them all the time. If they decide to bite, I do my best to draw them into the story.
* The majority of the players in my experience* are going to respond to what you give them as a DM at the table, regardless of what you've done away from the table. What do I mean? If you tell a good story, you can draw them in and hook them. If you don't tell a good story at the table, regardless of how well you craft the world, they're not going to bite.
If your PCs are not showing interest in your world, it may not be the world or players that need to change - it might be your delivery at the table. Maybe you're tired. Maybe you're insecure in your delivery. Maybe you've never spent any time learning how to build tension, deliver lines, or do all the other things that give players the rush at the table. After all, DMing is role playing - acting - and all the things that can ruin a good play can disrupt your game as well.
Whether you're struggling or not, self reflection is a good idea. Try recording yourself as a DM and listen to what you're doing. Ask another DM to listen and provide feedback. Watch 'professional' DMs and focus on what they do to draw the players into the game. Ask your players what their favorite stories have been in your games. Try watching Matt Colville, Matt Mercer, or any of those other major DM names talk about what they do and figure out what makes sense for you.
On the other hand, sometimes our world crafting is too convoluted for our own good, and we're driving players away because they feel like they're lost in a sea of lore. If that is what is going on, you need to give them a break,.
Try inserting a (published?) standalone module into your game as a change-of-pace. My method of doing this since the early 1990s has been to use Ravenloft adventures (or something similar). Where the PCs are pulled out of their storyline to do something else with no relationship to their storylines, to the world around them, or anything else they know ... and then after they complete that 4 to 8 session adventure, we drop them back where they were and take the time to recap where they left off (dropping a few hints here and there for things that they've overlooked). When I use Ravenloft for this, I make it seem like a standalone adventure, but I am actually using it as a Lore Dump where the history of the Dreadlord, the Domain, or other elements of the story actually foreshadow things to come in the main campaign - but NONE of if capitalizes upon what they already know. It is introducing information, not using established information. Down the road, they'll realize the powers that be dragged them to Ravenloft to learn, not to try to save XXXXX (which rarely actually works in Ravenloft).
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BookTenTiger
He / Him
When I create homebrew settings (which I do for each new campaign), I tend to set out a lot of "seed ideas" rather than fully-fleshed concepts.
For example, I'll sketch out the idea of an isolated abbey full of vampire-hunting monks. I'll give it a name, and that's that.
Whatever seed ideas the players glom onto, I'll develop more (often with input from the players). Whatever they don't catch onto, I'll drop, or repurpose.
So in my current campaign, that isolated abbey also got a Hermitage attached to it because of one character's background, and a Goliath warrior leader because of another character's backstory. The Abbey sat high in the mountains for 50 sessions, but the players kept saying "let's go there next, let's go there next!"
Finally they made their way to the Abbey, and now they are very invested in the setting and backstory!
For example, I'll sketch out the idea of an isolated abbey full of vampire-hunting monks. I'll give it a name, and that's that.
Whatever seed ideas the players glom onto, I'll develop more (often with input from the players). Whatever they don't catch onto, I'll drop, or repurpose.
So in my current campaign, that isolated abbey also got a Hermitage attached to it because of one character's background, and a Goliath warrior leader because of another character's backstory. The Abbey sat high in the mountains for 50 sessions, but the players kept saying "let's go there next, let's go there next!"
Finally they made their way to the Abbey, and now they are very invested in the setting and backstory!
Vaalingrade
Legend
Setting can absolutely make or break things for me, especially where it leans into genre and theme.
Ask me to be in an Eberron campaign with all sorts of pulp steampunk action and i am IN.
Ask me to be in Ravenloft with horror and despair and I will skip.
Ask me to be in 40K or Fading Suns or other grimdarkness and I will gnaw off an arm to escape.
Ask me to be in an Eberron campaign with all sorts of pulp steampunk action and i am IN.
Ask me to be in Ravenloft with horror and despair and I will skip.
Ask me to be in 40K or Fading Suns or other grimdarkness and I will gnaw off an arm to escape.
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