Do powers reduce combat originality?

[blargney the second]

I'd made sure to figure out how I'd handle it when the PCs decided to climb the thing's back to get away from its claws, and how they could briefly cripple it by targeting its legs, and I made sure the terrain provided lots of ways to get above the monster and jump down on it without actually letting the PCs stay out of its reach and snipe.

Uhh.. did you tell them about all that?

 

[Engilbrand]

We've had a lot of moment and some fun descriptors. I have new players, so it will take a bit for them to get into the swing of things.
You might want to consider giving them stunting bonuses. They can describe what they want to do, make some rolls, then do that. Do let the stunting get in the way. Here's an example from a game I was in recently- we were in a boat being attacked by a giant frog:

Player- I grab my staff and use it propel me up above the frog. I shove the end of the staff into its mouth and unleash [insert Warlock power].
DM- Ok. Give me an Athletics or Acrobatics roll.
Player- 1.
DM- As you go to do that, the staff slips on the bottom of the boat and propels you forward a bit so that you fall near its face a little off balance. You then bring the staff forward and blast it in the face.

The fun is increased and the scene is improved, plus the players are rolling more dice, which is always fun. You might even give minor rewards for the best stunts. Maybe a character finds an item that they would like. Maybe it's a little more XP. It could be an action point. Basically, give them the reminder that they should be more involved in the game.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I suspect its the "training-wheel" effect. Once your players feel comfy with the system, they'll be back to their cinematic swashbuckling ways.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I suspect its the "training-wheel" effect. Once your players feel comfy with the system, they'll be back to their cinematic swashbuckling ways.

I think the same. Especially the description with the sorting of power cards and stuff reminded me of our group at the beginning of our last high level 4E game - we are not yet accustomed to that level, since we haven't played these characters from level 1 (It's an adventure path conversion that was already in the middle of the campaign when conversion began). But we picked up the pace pretty quick.

But: We are not the kind of guys that do a lot of stunting - even in Iron Heroes. I hope that will change over time, since the group is also very accustomed to Torg that suites that style, too.

 

[Nifft]

I suspect its the "training-wheel" effect. Once your players feel comfy with the system, they'll be back to their cinematic swashbuckling ways.

My diagnosis as well.

Cool tricks will come after you all get comfortable with the system.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Obryn]

I suspect its the "training-wheel" effect. Once your players feel comfy with the system, they'll be back to their cinematic swashbuckling ways.

I agree.

Our first session, there wasn't much creativity.

Since then, I've had all kinds of crazy stuff like a gnome jumping on the back of a guard drake.

-O

 

[RangerWickett]

I'd made sure to figure out how I'd handle it when the PCs decided to climb the thing's back to get away from its claws, and how they could briefly cripple it by targeting its legs, and I made sure the terrain provided lots of ways to get above the monster and jump down on it without actually letting the PCs stay out of its reach and snipe.

Uhh.. did you tell them about all that?

Explicitly? No. However I did say, "It's legs are basically rock and not very vulnerable, but if you could get up to its head you'd have an easier time killing it." No one even tried.

 

[Verdande]

Has anyone else noticed powers getting in the way of originality and heroic moments in 4th edition? Do you have any suggestions for how to encourage players to think like an action star, instead of a video game player with a move list?

I haven't noticed that powers, in and of themselves, get in the way of combat, but I have certainly noticed that stacks of rules do, 4e powers being a good example of them.

I'm all about free-form combat, which is probably why I'm not for 4e or 3e these days.

My suggestion: Go easy on the rules, and let them bend or break the rules a little bit. The rules are there to act as a guideline, not a noose.

 

[RangerWickett]

I think I'll send the group an email informing them that they should try to be creative more often, and that creativity will be rewarded, because stunts should deal more damage than normal attacks. And yeah, once they get used to their powers, things should go more quickly.

In hindsight, since the game is stone age, I think I should've had the PCs' weapons show signs of damage as they tried to stab the stone mantis with stone spears, and then I could've said, "but the head looks nice and squishy," but eh, no worries.

 

[Stalker0]

I was going to say something else, but I saw the mention of the training wheel effect and I think overall that is a big factor.

Sometimes creativity is a solution born out of monotony!

When you first start 4e, you have all of these powers you've never had before, so you want to try them out. And hey you look cool!

Then after a while your doing the same thing over and over again. So the creativity kicks in, and you start asking your DM can I use athletics to do X, or arcana to do Y. Can I use the power in this way or that?