Level Up (A5E) Do skill specialties count as having expertise on the die for purposes of passive skills?

[Faolyn]

I'm converting one of my o5e characters to LU mostly to play around with the system. Her Wisdom is 11 (+0), she's proficient in Perception, and due to her Villager culture, she has expertise on Per checks made while keeping watch. Is her passive Per 12 (0 + proficiency bonus) or 15 (0 + PB + expertise)? Or would her passive Per only be 15 when she's on watch?

Now, having a higher passive Per on watch makes sense here... but what if she had a skill specialization in Insight or Stealth? (As it is, she's not proficient in either of those skill so it's moot for me, but it'll likely be important for other characters).

 

[VenerableBede]

It is my understanding that expertise does not increase passive scores at all. So your character's passive perception would be 10 + WIS modifier (+ PB if proficient).

 

[Anselm]

It is my understanding that expertise does not increase passive scores at all. So your character's passive perception would be 10 + WIS modifier (+ PB if proficient).

Expertise definitely does increase passive scores (pg 402). @Faolyn, I can do some mental gymnastics to get me to justifying adding specialities and temporary/situational expertise to passive but there's no explicit inclusion for them so it's very hard to say what's intended from my read.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

your passive perception would normally be 12, and would be 15 during a watch, as passive scores are still checks (in fact, page 402 explicitly refers to them only as passive checks - it doesn't mention scores at all) and thus (i would assume, anyway, especially given that passive checks explicitly gain a +3 bonus from expertise dice) benefit from expertise dice that effect checks. that said, i have no idea why your DM wouldn't just make you roll for perception during a watch, but if they really wanted to take your passive for that watch then yeah it'd be a 15.

 

[VenerableBede]

Expertise definitely does increase passive scores (pg 402).

Thank you for bringing this to my attention! As you said, page 402:

"If the character has advantage on the check, add 5, and if they have an expertise die add 3. If the character has disadvantage, subtract 5."

It appears that, regardless of the size of the expertise die, the number added is always 3. So, to revise my previous formula:
Passive Perception: 10 + WIS MOD (+ PB, if proficient) (+ 3, if an expertise die of any size)