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Do the PCs follow the same rules as everyone else?
- Thread starter Crothian
- Start date
I voted that they're the same, but I then I realized that you're talking mostly about character generation...
I don't think NPC/monster stat generation really counts here. The DM is supposed to be able to create appropriate challenges for the party. Maybe that means using the same point buy values, and maybe that means using lesser values, but more critters. Maybe I want to use an entire tribe of weak goblins, instead of just a few 32 point-buy ones, for example.
I have the enemies follow the same rules as PCs for what they get out of class levels, but I reserve the right to set the stats and hit points (within the bounds of the critter's hit dice, of course), as I see fit.
I don't think NPC/monster stat generation really counts here. The DM is supposed to be able to create appropriate challenges for the party. Maybe that means using the same point buy values, and maybe that means using lesser values, but more critters. Maybe I want to use an entire tribe of weak goblins, instead of just a few 32 point-buy ones, for example.
I have the enemies follow the same rules as PCs for what they get out of class levels, but I reserve the right to set the stats and hit points (within the bounds of the critter's hit dice, of course), as I see fit.
Kristivas
First Post
There are 3 kinds of people in my campaigns, and I'll give a few examples of each.
1. Mundane
-The farmers, blacksmiths, NPC classes from the DMG, general town folk, and cannon fodder (the hobgoblin right out of the MM, for example).
What do they get: Standard, out of the book stats, a few characteristics (like a scar, talk like a redneck, ect), average book-stats.
Percentage of my campaign worlds: 85%
2. The Blessed
-The PCs, most BBEGs, NPC party members (full NPCs, not hirlings), the accomplice to #3.
What do they get: Rolled stats and HP, a little better-than-average money for their level for gear, action points.
Percentage of my campaign worlds: 10%
3. Upper Echelon
-The guy the BBEG is working for, the level 20 Paladin of Torm that the PCs move aside for while in town, that one lone guy who's just standing there and smiling while the PCs are fighting the BBEG and his minions at the end of a campaign of chasing him.
What do they get: Customized stats and HP (sometimes maxed hp), near-unlimited resources, and maybe even a supernatural ability (or two, or more, ect) they gained through the service to their God (good or bad), action points. In depth character development and abilities of such.
Percentage of my campaign worlds: 5%
"Wow, how can I be an Upper Echelon character in one of your games?!" -- I'm glad you asked! All you have to do is give over your character sheet and make a new one! Maybe you'll see your old character all new and decked out.
Why do I have those Tier 3 guys? After getting high level and beating dragons and demons and the like, PCs start feeling really powerful. Tier 3 guys are there to politely (or not so much) remind them that they're still mortal and can still have their behinds kicked. I do like having a Tier 3 guy as a really BBEG at the end of a huge campaign. It makes it challenging and rewarding if the characters win. I also like to have a few hanging around for the side of good. Say one or two of the party members gets mouthy with the Baron because he can easily beat the Baron and his guards? Well, he's a Baron for a reason. His little brother Timmy went on an epic campaign and had an artifact molded into the stump that used to be his left arm. If you really make the Baron angry, he can call little Timmy in for an attitude adjustment. I'll work good any time
1. Mundane
-The farmers, blacksmiths, NPC classes from the DMG, general town folk, and cannon fodder (the hobgoblin right out of the MM, for example).
What do they get: Standard, out of the book stats, a few characteristics (like a scar, talk like a redneck, ect), average book-stats.
Percentage of my campaign worlds: 85%
2. The Blessed
-The PCs, most BBEGs, NPC party members (full NPCs, not hirlings), the accomplice to #3.
What do they get: Rolled stats and HP, a little better-than-average money for their level for gear, action points.
Percentage of my campaign worlds: 10%
3. Upper Echelon
-The guy the BBEG is working for, the level 20 Paladin of Torm that the PCs move aside for while in town, that one lone guy who's just standing there and smiling while the PCs are fighting the BBEG and his minions at the end of a campaign of chasing him.
What do they get: Customized stats and HP (sometimes maxed hp), near-unlimited resources, and maybe even a supernatural ability (or two, or more, ect) they gained through the service to their God (good or bad), action points. In depth character development and abilities of such.
Percentage of my campaign worlds: 5%
"Wow, how can I be an Upper Echelon character in one of your games?!" -- I'm glad you asked! All you have to do is give over your character sheet and make a new one! Maybe you'll see your old character all new and decked out.
Why do I have those Tier 3 guys? After getting high level and beating dragons and demons and the like, PCs start feeling really powerful. Tier 3 guys are there to politely (or not so much) remind them that they're still mortal and can still have their behinds kicked. I do like having a Tier 3 guy as a really BBEG at the end of a huge campaign. It makes it challenging and rewarding if the characters win. I also like to have a few hanging around for the side of good. Say one or two of the party members gets mouthy with the Baron because he can easily beat the Baron and his guards? Well, he's a Baron for a reason. His little brother Timmy went on an epic campaign and had an artifact molded into the stump that used to be his left arm. If you really make the Baron angry, he can call little Timmy in for an attitude adjustment. I'll work good any time
Volaran
First Post
PCs get some special treatment for being protagonists, for the most part.
I believe they should be a cut above the general population. This can be represented by max hit points on the first die, access to PC classes, action points, ect.
For the most part, I also believe the experience table only really applies to PCs. They tend to gather power rather quickly in a normal game, though I have scaled that back in mine.
I do not try justifying NPC level through the normal system, and have even had legendary characters lower in level than one might expect, to represent them being past their prime.
At the same time, I have no problem giving important NPCs access to some or all PC benefits if it will make situations more interesting.
I believe they should be a cut above the general population. This can be represented by max hit points on the first die, access to PC classes, action points, ect.
For the most part, I also believe the experience table only really applies to PCs. They tend to gather power rather quickly in a normal game, though I have scaled that back in mine.
I do not try justifying NPC level through the normal system, and have even had legendary characters lower in level than one might expect, to represent them being past their prime.
At the same time, I have no problem giving important NPCs access to some or all PC benefits if it will make situations more interesting.
JRRNeiklot
First Post
If anything, I make the npcs tougher. Unless I need stats for an un-named shopkeeper, then I just roll 3d6 for say, his wisdom if I need a spot check.
Gabriel Stryffe
First Post
I'll try not to offend anyone this time around...
There is a fine line between how special the PC's are than the rest of society at large, and how they are treated in order to make them feel special. Regardless of how you have your PC's make up their characters, they need to feel that they've actually accomplished something from time to time. Sometimes that means making your big-bad at the end of the adventure with max HP and a fighter's THAC0 ( or Base attack bonuses) regardless of his/her class.
Having a fair amount of minor successes along the way is important too. Sometimes the fighters in the party need to win the fist fight with the bouncer before they town guard show up and haul them off to the constabulary, sometimes the theif needs to find their big score walking down the street and be set for money by lifting some poor bloke's purse (give the mark a random wisdom score, good idea by the way). If they feel like they've failed at ever turn before the final act, no matter how small the evnents may have been, the PC's (maybe even your Players) will be completely out of drive and confidence by the time they get there.
Beyond character creation or the PC's ability to overcome high level/high powered NPC's and challenges, the best feeling of accomplishment that players feel (I find), is when they've been beaten down again and again, and in the end they come out on top.
Now I don't mean they run into some trouble and they have to hide from the inept town guard for a few hours...I mean a scenario where nothing is held back, their families, loved ones and their pets all die in the same week, usually at the hands of the same Shmendrick whom they are out to thwart. They loose all of their cool equipment, money, they get captured and tortured by the badguys, thrown in jail, hunted by every bounty hunter and lowlife in the kingdom/Country/World and in the end with nothing but their wits, a drive to end the Antagonists twisted and evil life, and some second hand equipment from Bob's bargain basement discount adventuring goods...they prevail...and they will thank you for it.
As I said, It is a fine line.
There is a fine line between how special the PC's are than the rest of society at large, and how they are treated in order to make them feel special. Regardless of how you have your PC's make up their characters, they need to feel that they've actually accomplished something from time to time. Sometimes that means making your big-bad at the end of the adventure with max HP and a fighter's THAC0 ( or Base attack bonuses) regardless of his/her class.
Having a fair amount of minor successes along the way is important too. Sometimes the fighters in the party need to win the fist fight with the bouncer before they town guard show up and haul them off to the constabulary, sometimes the theif needs to find their big score walking down the street and be set for money by lifting some poor bloke's purse (give the mark a random wisdom score, good idea by the way). If they feel like they've failed at ever turn before the final act, no matter how small the evnents may have been, the PC's (maybe even your Players) will be completely out of drive and confidence by the time they get there.
Beyond character creation or the PC's ability to overcome high level/high powered NPC's and challenges, the best feeling of accomplishment that players feel (I find), is when they've been beaten down again and again, and in the end they come out on top.
Now I don't mean they run into some trouble and they have to hide from the inept town guard for a few hours...I mean a scenario where nothing is held back, their families, loved ones and their pets all die in the same week, usually at the hands of the same Shmendrick whom they are out to thwart. They loose all of their cool equipment, money, they get captured and tortured by the badguys, thrown in jail, hunted by every bounty hunter and lowlife in the kingdom/Country/World and in the end with nothing but their wits, a drive to end the Antagonists twisted and evil life, and some second hand equipment from Bob's bargain basement discount adventuring goods...they prevail...and they will thank you for it.
As I said, It is a fine line.
NPCs use roughly the same stats and classes that the PCs do (NPC classes are just to fragile when going toe to toe with PCs).
Chump NPCs get a 22-25 point buy and dont get max hp at 1st, "officer" NPCs use 28 point buy and get max hp at 1st, "Boss" NPCs get 30-35 and usualy some bonus HP as well. All leveled NPCs pull roughly the same class list as the players.
Chump NPCs get a 22-25 point buy and dont get max hp at 1st, "officer" NPCs use 28 point buy and get max hp at 1st, "Boss" NPCs get 30-35 and usualy some bonus HP as well. All leveled NPCs pull roughly the same class list as the players.
I've done it both ways. 'Roll up' every NPC the characters are likely to run into just like a PC or give them average stats, plus whatever for 'special' skills/crafts. (Smith with higher STR, etc.) So I voted for the PCs are special. Rolling up all those NPCs properly just takes way too much time, and 90% of the time the players never even realize it.
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