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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Negative Zero" data-source="post: 212483" data-attributes="member: 3794">Jerrid Al-Kundo, much of what you say is true, and for the most part, i agree with you. especially the part about the players having fun. if they are enjoying the game, great! if your style of DMing matches their style of playing, then you have something that it seems most people don't get to see. also, it sounds like you have a very unique world where all of the normal rules/books don't apply.in my experience, and after reading this board for some time, it seems that your situation is pretty far from the norm. and consequently, doesn't apply to the vast majority. my post above, while taken mostly from a very specific world, was made with the intention of applying it to general situations. while a certain amount of realism is absolutely neccessary to running/playing a good RPG, it still is a game, not a life simulator. the 4-8 hours that most people play can never accurately portray the lives of characters. much like a movie/play, there is 10 times as much that happens offscreen/offstage. converstaions, meeting random people, thoughts/revelations, things the characters witness, books that get read, all sorts of things that make up the character. all of them affect the character's thinking. are they taken into account? hardly ever. most times, players aren't even aware of them. even tho they *should* affect their PCs thinking.perhaps i get ahead of myself, but i tend to get a lil up in arms about DMs who take away choices from players. DMs already have all the control in games. all players can control is their characters. DMs should be careful of how much of that they take away from players. not at all. the word balance gets abused a lot. the balancing factor is the number of skill points per level per class. how you spend them isn't. having the same information available to both NPCs ans players is balancing. skewing it to one side isn't. (of course i'm talking of rules, and options not plot devices and world mysteries. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />) you can't talk about balance, and leave out information, which is one of the most essential resources no matter what you do.now that i've sufficiently railroaded this thread in an entirely different direction, lemme see if i can bring it back. i've heard this argument before, and i still fail to see why a character's concept can't revolve around the character witnessing an abilty in use and then spending her life trying to get it from herself. the pursuit of a PrC can be a fun thing. it can even provide adventure hooks. and sometimes, character frustration can be a worthwhile addition to the story. but that should depend on the delicate balance of which player it happens to and their level of enjoyment, of that sort of thing.but isn't the point of playing to exploer not only worlds and event that yuu enjoy, but also to explore characters that you like as well? a specific character concept and the pursiut of it, is no less valid than a campaign world. now, how does this apply to the argument here? as i stated earlier, if the PrC that the player wants for her character wasn't made available from the beginning of the character's life, then some allowances should be made to faciliate that. i'm not gonna go over the ways to do that again. they're still there for anyone who's interested. but i guess that's the whole point i was trying to get at.~NegZ(geez this thing is long ... am i that much of a windbag? LOL <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />)</blockquote>

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