Do you (in 3.x / Pathfinder) actually charge wizards for spells?

[Aberzanzorax]

I realized I was beginning to hijack the thread http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...ard-how-come-billy-gets-create-demiplane.html , so I figured I'd fork my question here...in poll form, no less!


Whether a player or DM, is this something you do? I note the frequent complaints of the "overpowered" wizard, including the thread I mentioned. I suspect that the wizard is frequently considered overpowered because gaming groups ignore the important rule of paying for spells.

So, do your wizards pay full price for spells?

(I will be adding some maths to this thread in a bit about spell costs...including reserving the first few posts).

 

[Aberzanzorax]

Potential 3.x SRD costs, and EVERY SPELL IN THE GAME!

For the regular SRD, the cheapest way to obtain spells is to copy them from another spellbook (scrolls and research are more).
Copying from another wiz's spellbook has a fee of "spell's level x 50 gold."

"A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has one hundred pages."

"Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page."

Here are the SRD costs:
0 - 125 (counting copying at 25 for 1/2 spell lvl)
1 - 150
2 - 300
3 - 450
4 - 600
5 - 750
6 - 900
7 - 1,050
8 - 1,200
9 - 1,350

Also, let us not forget time and effort."The process takes 24 hours, regardless of the spell’s level." If a wizard fails their Spellcraft roll, the day is wasted and they need to try again the next day. So, for each and every spell, a wizard has to find 24 hours or more, depending on spellcraft.

(And, of course, there are the costs of spell components.)




To buy every spell in the 3.x SRD, it would cost:
I'm using SRD spells only here. Also, I'm assuming buying them all for easier math (no free spells).

19 0 lvl spells = 2,375
39 1st lvl spells = 5,850
50 2nd lvl spells = 15,000
42 3rd lvl spells = 18,900
41 4th lvl spells = 24,600
43 5th lvl spells = 32,250
43 6th lvl spells = 38,700
35 7th lvl spells = 36,750
35 8th lvl spells = 42,000
24 9th lvl spells = 32,400

Grand total for "every spell in the game" (at the cheapest, non scroll, non research cost) is: 248,825 gold.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

Pathfinder spell costs and versatility along with wealth by level.

All info from www.d20pfsrd.com mainly from http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic *but I couldn't find their "included chart" for spell costs...I pulled that from the actual book. I assume it is open content. If not, I will delete what needs to be deleted.

"In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook."

Pathfinder spell costs:
Lvl - writing into book alone - final cost including buying from another wizard
0 - 5 - 7.5
1 - 10 - 15
2 - 40 - 60
3 - 90 - 120
4 - 160 - 240
5 - 250 - 375
6 - 360 - 540
7 - 490 - 735
8 - 640 - 960
9 - 810 - 1,215


Thought Experiment: How versatile could a "naked wizard be"? That is, assuming buying ONLY spells (no magic items, no mount, no spell components even) and having standard wealth per level, how many spells would the wizard know? Also, it is assumed the highest lvl spells the caster can cast are the ones bought (so at char lvl 3, the caster only buys lvl 2 spells). Zero level spells are ignored, as are "free spells" including those known for free at lvl 1 and the 2 learned at each lvl.

Level - Character Wealth - Spells Purchased
1 - 70 - 4 lvl 1
2 - 1,000 - 62 more lvl 1
3 - 3,000 - 33 lvl 2
4 - 6,000 - 50 more lvl 2
5 - 10,500 - 37 lvl 3
6 - 16,000 - 45 more lvl 3
7 - 23,500 - 31 lvl 4
8 - 33,000 - 39 more lvl 4
9 - 46,000 - 34 lvl 5
10 - 62,000 - 42 more lvl 5
11 - 82,000 - 37 lvl 6
12 - 108,000 - 48 more lvl 6
13 - 140,000 - 43 lvl 7
14 - 185,000 - 61 more lvl 7

Annnd I'm stopping there. This chart actually showed me a surprise...that the decreased cost of spells, particularly lower level spells from the SRD to Pathfinder give a wizard a LOT more versatility. It goes somewhat counter to what I had been thinking...that wizard versatility was enforced throught the cost of their spells. But, there it is, there's the math.

 

[kitsune9]

I'm a DM who definitely ensures that spells components and all other costs for spells are factored in. Also the costs associated with scribing are required for the players.

It is infrequent bookkeeping that shouldn't interfere with play, so it's the reason of why I enforce it.

 

[Umbran]

I went with "yes".

I occasionally give wizards access to spells as "treasure"/reward, but then it is figured into how much I'm giving the character and the party overall. I do try to keep the spellbooks in mind when computing "wealth" for comparison to the guidelines.

Not that I stick to the wealth guidelines strictly, but I do use them as a point of comparison.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I don't pay much attention to it. The average wizard gets all the spells they'll ever use just from leveling up.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

I don't pay much attention to it. The average wizard gets all the spells they'll ever use just from leveling up.

It's this attitude I think is common. That's 2 spells per level of the wizard.

So that means a lvl 17 wizard has four (and only 4) spells of every level other than 1. Have you found this to be the case (that means for lower lvl spells you actually know fewer spells than have spell slots available...and that you know fewer spells than a sorceror)?

 

[Nagol]

I voted yes.

And the Wizards protect their spellbooks because they don't want to lose them and have to start over.

You can get around some of the costs of writing spells by buying/making a Blessed Book.

That reduces the costs substantially.

 

[Celebrim]

I voted, "Sorta.", although it is a "Sorta" that is far more "Yes" than it is "No".

Learning and copying spells pretty much works like RAW. The real difference between my game and the RAW is that wizard's can pretty much freely read and use each other's spellbooks. The language and notation that magic is written in isn't private, and in fact is deeply connected to the very nature of the universe. You can't just personalize it. So one wizard can look at another wizard's spell and read it as easily as a composer can read another composer's musical notation - more easily perhaps because you dare not be sloppy when writing magic.

A wizard may wish to copy a spell into his own spell book, particularly if the spell he finds is - as it is quite often - in a tome that is bulky and heavy, but he's not required to. In practice, a low-level PC wizard typically acquires most of his spells by killing other wizards and taking their stuff. He adds their spell books to his collection, and copies the most useful spells into his own 'travelling' spell book(s). It's not unusual for the wizard to be going around with a whole chest of spell books (Donkey-Horse FTW), and usually the parties earliest desire for a 'stronghold' is for a place to store the wizard's library, laboratory and similar non-portable loot securely. After all, all those scrolls aren't scribed and potions aren't brewed in a vacuum.

So yes, wizards pay 'full price' for their spells, but the absolute requirement to do so is less than in RAW. Of course, my game uses a silver peice standard and a different less-gamist price scale than RAW too, so 'full price' is relative to the terms of my economy.

 

[Diamond Cross]

It all depends on the circumstances. If he already has the materials to transcribe spells into his spellbook, then no I don't charge. If he has to go to a place then I charge. Mostly because it costs to have books maintained.

But I also charge less if the Wizards' already a member of the library.