Do you know when you fail a save?

[Quasqueton]

SRD:

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack.

Does a creature know when it fails a save? And if so, this makes secret scrying and divining less secret, doesn't it? Kind of reduces the need for the detect scrying spell.

Quasqueton

 

[jgsugden]

SRDoes a creature know when it fails a save? And if so, this makes secret scrying and divining less secret, doesn't it? Kind of reduces the need for the detect scrying spell.

Quasqueton

There is nothing to indicate that you notice that you were forced to perform a saving throw when you fail that saving throw (subject to common sense proof ... ie; hold person is rather obvious in effect).

 

[Gnimish88]

There is nothing to indicate that you notice that you were forced to perform a saving throw when you fail that saving throw (subject to common sense proof ... ie; hold person is rather obvious in effect).

Ummm.... I would say from what Quasqueton is quoting, that is EXACTLY what it is saying. I also agree this seems a little odd for scrying magic. Perhaps saying if it wouldn't have a direct effect on you then you don't notice. That way, scrying is relatively safe, but trying to Charm Person from the shadows is a little more risky.

 

[Spatula]

Ummm.... I would say from what Quasqueton is quoting, that is EXACTLY what it is saying.

No, the rules say that a creature knows when it succeeds a saving throw. There's nothing about failing a save, which is what Quesqeton's question concerns, so presumably creatures do not know when they fail saving throws unless there's an obvious effect.

 

[shilsen]

No, the rules say that a creature knows when it succeeds a saving throw. There's nothing about failing a save, which is what Quesqeton's question concerns, so presumably creatures do not know when they fail saving throws unless there's an obvious effect.

What Spatula said. The fact that you have a rule to specifically state that you know when you've successfully made a save indicates that it is not the case in all situations. Knowing when you failed the save would make a lot of spells next to redundant, such as detect thoughts, a number of scry-type spells, many illusions, etc.

 

[Gnimish88]

No, the rules say that a creature knows when it succeeds a saving throw. There's nothing about failing a save, which is what Quesqeton's question concerns, so presumably creatures do not know when they fail saving throws unless there's an obvious effect.

D'oh! I see what you are saying. Going to have to read more carefully in the future.