Do you let your PCs create any magic item they want?

[dreaded_beast]

In the campaign I play in, the wizard in the party took "Craft Wonderous Item" and "Craft Magic Arms and Armor". He's a nice guy, and felt it would help the party to create items that would augment the power of everyone in the party. I play a cleric, so I thought it was a decent idea, since I could help make some items too.

We play in Greyhawk, and were about to enter the Temple of Elemental Evil. We thought that, OK, we can spend around a month or two outside the ToEE to prep and gear up. A temple to Herioneous was nearby, where I was the cleric, so I figured we could use that as a place to create our items.

However, we soon discovered that it wasn't so easy. The type of campaign we play has virtually no down time what so ever. We are constantly on the move, with one adventure after another. Down time for us is at the very most 3-5 days. The wizard was hoping that our DM would allow us to have some time to create some items once he got the feat, but that wasn't the case.

Adventures kept coming non-stop, and when we said we wanted some free time to create items, he had some minor complaints, saying that there were things that were going on and that we would miss out. We said we didn't mind and that we wanted to create the items. We could tell that he was still a bit irritated. He mentioned that he didn't want us to waste time making magic items when we could be adventuring instead. It's a bit bothersome when the DM grumbles about things he doesn't want us to do.

One of the reasons the wizard took these feats in the first place is because we were unable to purchase items from the DMG at market price. Whatever we wanted was always twice the price of what was listed in the DMG, sometimes more. That didn't make any sense to us, because it only takes the creator half of the market value to create the item, so they were already making a profit if the items were purchased at market value. Forget about adding extra enchantments to items we find, because for some reason, no NPC will do it.

So now the wizard feels that he is stuck with two feats that are virtually useless in the campaign we play in. He is contemplating asking the DM if he can change those two feats, since it seems as if the DM does not want us to make use of them.

I think our DM is still stuck in the 1st ed. and 2nd ed. mentally that there are no such things as "magic shops" and it should be nearly impossible for PCs to create items, let alone items they want.

We understand that DM has to keep things in check, so the PCs don't become to powerful, but we don't think this is the case for this situation. Do you think we are expecting too much as players?

 

[DaveMage]

We understand that DM has to keep things in check, so the PCs don't become to powerful, but we don't think this is the case for this situation. Do you think we are expecting too much as players?

I would suggest speaking to your DM about changing the item creation feats selected so that you have more useful feats. If the DM doesn't want items created, that's his call, of course, but you should at least be able to get more useful feats.

In my games, players are allowed to create anything they want (and are able to).

Personally, I think your DM is being a bit too controlling, but if that's the type of game he want to run, it's his perrogative. Still, I'd try to get those feats changed to something better.

 

[I'm A Banana]

You're not expecting too much, but your DM probably isn't aware of the consequences of their action.

I mean, RttToEE is an admitted party-masher. And the CR for enemies is based around them having the magic items for their level. Which means having the gold for their level, and being able to buy magic items with that gold.

Your DM is essentially jacking up the difficulty of the game. Unless she's giving you extra XP, or some other perk (such as powers that duplicate magic items), she's totally presenting you with a challenge that's going to kick your butts three ways from Saturday Night Fever.

I would let my party delay for construction of magic items, and I'd also allow them to buy them.

Ask your DM to let you spend gold on 'powers,' then. A certain part of what you would get in GP goes into a fund to 'buy' a special ability....for the same (or perhaps double) the price of a magic item.

If your DM doesn't like magic item shops, maybe this will go over better with them?

 

[Shallown]

I would approach the in a conversational not confrontational way and ask. "What can I do with these feats." If he answers I don't know or something to that affect ask why did he approve them.

Don't be difficult or confrontational just honest. Say "hey I must be missing something here cause I'm not sure why I have this problem." Also if he is charging twice book price do you get half of that or half of the book price for selling them. If your getting screwed that badly the characters should just start selling items if the rate is 4 times the creation price. You'll make all kinds of money without the risk of adventuring.

I think this is a matter of communicating the players expectations and the Gm's expectations. If he has a 1st or 2nd edition mentality I remember my mages making crap all the time it was within the rules just not balanced and within the rules like 3rd edition or instead of balanced lets say structured.

I think you should just ask until his answers satisify you and you know what it takes to make items. If you wanted the feats your character should have some idea what they can do. Approach from not I want to know but what does my character know.

Hope this helps. I know when I first ran 3rd I had to learn to design down time since I think it plays a much greater part in the campaign than before. Just to be fair to players expectations.

In the end if you want to be diffcult you can just refuse to follow his train tracks make camp somewhere safe and that he says is safe and make items regardless of what happens. Of course this solution will lead to a blow up but sometimes that works as well.


later

 

[Lord Pendragon]

If your DM is using the module Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, then as Kamikaze Midget already mentioned, your DM needs to be aware of what he's doing. The adventure is balanced for a group with standard gold value in equipment, either purchased at market price or made. Altering that means he's making an already deadly adventure even more so.

If, on the other hand, he's simply using the module as a source, and wants to run a lower magic game, then the problem isn't your group's lack of downtime, it's the fact that the DM should have informed the wizard of his intention to keep the party moving, before the wizard chose his feats.

Some DMs (such as myself) like to run a lower magic game. But the players need to be told that from the beginning, so they can make choices regarding feats, classes, etc. with that in mind, and don't feel short-changed later, as your wizard does.

I'd suggest talking, as Shallown said. Ask the DM if he's intentionally lowering the amount of magic in the game. Explain that doing so might make the module RttToEE (if he's using it,) much more difficult. If it isn't intentional, as for some down time so that your party can get up to the appropriate power level for the module. If it is intentional, (and you guys are willing to play in such a game,) ask if the wizard can switch out his item creation feats for others, since he's not going to be able to use them in the type of campaign the DM is running.

 

[dreaded_beast]

In regards to the RToEE, he is the type of DM to use material from the module, but he makes it his own, by tweaking various things. For instance, I believe he melded the the original ToEE and RToEE. So far we have been doing mini-adventures outside of Nulb, I believe his way of gearing us up for the dangers within.

In terms of magic, the campaign is far from a low-magic one. In fact, we find many magic items in treasure hordes. All the characters have a good amount of magic items, but the catch is that most of the items we find are not that useful, at least to us.

For example, the fighter in our group specialized in the longsword. He has a +2 fiery-burst longsword. He also has appropriate feats to maximize the use of the longsword. However, whenever we find magic weapons greater than +2, we usually find +3 spike chain, +4 spears, etc. Equipment that noone in the group really uses or has feats for. Or when everyone in the group has rings of deflection +2 and all we find are rings of deflection +1 or +2.

We end up selling what we cannot use, which is mostly alot, for half the market value. This is a pet peeve, because first we pay twice the amount in the DMG and then only receive half of that when we sell.

It wouldn't be so bad if this was a low-magic campaign. That way, we could at least expect things to be like that. But in a campaign were almost all the badguys, even cannon-fodder, wield +1 weapons at least or have cloaks of resistance +1, it doesn't make any sense to us that it is so difficult for us to create our own magic items.

In my DM's defense, when he does want to give out magic items that are good, he goes all out, but that is becoming few and far between.

Maybe it is the DM's perogative to control how much magic items that party should have? Do you think myself and groupmates are becoming too "whiny" in what we can get?

 

[I'm A Banana]

I just think he's not entirely aware of what he's doing by jacking up the price that high....he seems to be using the rules in everything but that.

IF he's rolling for treasure, like he should, most of the stuff you find won't be that useful...that's part of what makes it an interesting choice...does your fighter use the longsword he's specialized in, or keep it in the sheath while he flails around the spiked chain for a while?

Selling things back should be at *half the price that you would buy such an item*. If your DM is making you sell them back for half of the original market price (and not half of the higher price he's set), I'd say screw adventuring. Have your character go and make wands, since aparently he can get more than double what he invested in it. If he needs to make more wands, kill a goblin. In fact, start supplying the other local adventueres with half-price magic items!

That's a bit hostile though. Just let them know that by jacking up the price of magic without giving you anything to compensate (at the very least, the XP from each encounter should go up), then they're increasing the difficulty of an already difficult adventure, and this is going to make things not very fun for the players.

 

[Vlos]

A few thoughts.


I am also in a campaign where we are non-stop. But we have created alternate characters. Thus one of our characters can have the time if really needed, while the other toon plays. So possibly if the reason behind it, is he wants you to continue to play, ask him about a secondary toon that you can play while your other toon is creating an item.

Second. I believe in 3.5, they changed item creation in that it no longer has to be continous. Thus each of those 1-2 days of downtime you could spend creating a magic item. Then after several adventures you would have an item.

Third, take leadership feat and have a cohort make the magic items for you. Our DM has a house rule where they can only help, but there is nothing in the DMG that states they can't. They are just more limited than a normal character.

 

[Mystery Man]

We understand that DM has to keep things in check, so the PCs don't become to powerful, but we don't think this is the case for this situation. Do you think we are expecting too much as players?

If you have the materials, gold and XP to spend yeah. Why not?

The wizard was hoping that our DM would allow us to have some time to create some items once he got the feat, but that wasn't the case.

Thats crappy. You should talk to him..

 

[dreaded_beast]

Thanks for the suggestions. Our group plays on Saturdays, so maybe we will be able to bring it up then.