Do You Like "Consolation Prize" Mechanics?

[Dice4Hire]

For me it depends onthe ability, or how often I can use the ability. If it is a simple ability, all-or-nothing is fine, or at most a minor effect on a miss.

If it is limited use, or very restricted, I would want it to do something on a miss, because I hate wasting my big gun totally. I can deal with a weaker secondary effect, not just an all or nothing thing.

 

[Nymrohd]

I think all non-reliable dailies should have them. And non-striker dailies should have the biggest part of their effect always happen. Like the shaman

 

[Dice4Hire]

On a "bigger" scale, it could even be a general design element of a game. Instead of having "to-hit" rolls, you have "how-well-do-you-hit" rolls. As someone else noted - engaging in combat with someone is exhausting, even if he never directly hits or touches you.
Since hit points are already abstract, it might make a lot of sense to forget the entire concept of "hit vs miss" anyway. As it is now, "hit" doesn't really mean any physical contact anyway.

Yes, but at what cost in reality. I can see hit points being whatever till the near end, but then there is a weapon shearing through someone. If it is jsut a loss of a few or a medium amount of hit points/ vitality. whatever I think combat would bore me to tears.

I happen to like monsters missing me.

 

[Mallus]

This makes certain weapons attacks more like a fireball, ie the target will take some damage no matter what (in most cases).

Which is to say certain, special weapons attacks are now more decisive, but limited-use abilities, like spells were in prior editions.

Which isn't to say every 4e martial character is a spellcaster.

So while the concept is new to martial characters, it's not new to the game.

I'm fine with it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yes, but at what cost in reality. I can see hit points being whatever till the near end, but then there is a weapon shearing through someone. If it is jsut a loss of a few or a medium amount of hit points/ vitality. whatever I think combat would bore me to tears.

I happen to like monsters missing me.

In such a system, one would probably still want a way to tell "yes, now you are actually injured". That can be implemented in various ways, none of which have only to be "hit or miss".
Stuff like the Bloodied or Dying condition or the Star Wars condition track do this already.

 

[Ariosto]

It's a step away from exploring process, which is an exploration I like but that has never figured quite as much in D&D as in some other games. The "hit point" mechanism obviously wraps a lot of factors into an abstraction.

Besides the old fireball spell mentioned above, there's the basic melee system of Tunnels & Trolls (1975). Missile fire in T&T involves a roll to hit (the specific method having changed over editions). Melee, though, is a matter of each side generating a total of hits and the loser (lower total) taking the difference as damage.

4E seems to me to have moved further into the realm of abstraction than previous editions, albeit with more rules. A "consolation prize" feature is one way to distinguish one attack from another. Even if the numbers end up being similar in the long run, tactics in a given moment may give one power an edge over another -- something that adds interest to the game.

I have experimented with home-brewed games in which every action changes the situation, if only to the extent of using up some "hit points". In that case, one can dispense with a "hit" roll and go directly to randomization of "damage".

I think that works best with something along the lines of 4E "healing surges", so that one can still easily have some fights finish with negligible cost to the victors. Otherwise, unless one is dealing with huge stocks of hit points, the attrition on high-level figures is likely to seem too much in some cases.

 

[Stalker0]

From my own experience:

1) I do not like a small amount of damage or half damage on a miss. From playing and from my watching my players play...there doesn't seem to be much consolation in the prize.

2) I really like effect based powers...I wish there were lots more of them for several reasons:

a) A true consolation prize. When the barb misses his big damage attack but still gets a permanent buff for the fight, he still feels pretty good.

b) The best way to model "buff" powers in 4e. The one reason I really miss buff powers in 4e is they were especially good for casters with a lower primary stat. One of the reason attacking is so important in 4e is that you have to hit to make things happen. With buff powers, attacking is less important.

c) Allows the flavor of not attacking. For example, I love the avenger power that lets you phase through walls as an effect. So yes its an attack power, but out of combat it just lets an avenger go through walls.

 

[Raven Crowking]

It seems to me that misses balance out hits, so that removing the possibility of a miss does nothing more than dilute the value of a hit.

Moreover, if you change the rules to "Full Damage Hit" and "Part Damage Hit", the "Part Damage Hit" becomes the new miss, and becomes something that some folks will rail against as "unfun".

I like attack rolls. I like the woohoo of hits. I like the groans that go with misses. They are part of a whole. Removing one half devalues the other.

Consolation mechanics can be fun in limited circumstances, but making consolation mechanics the whole of the game sucks the life out of it, IMHO.


RC

 

[billd91]

I'm not a fan of consolation mechanics unless they make sense for the power/attack under consideration. In 4e, reliability and half damage for dailies can make some sense, so much is bound up in the power. But I don't see a point for martial encounter exploits or at wills. Some actions should be ineffective from time to time.

What I wouldn't mind seeing, in any edition of D&D, is an encounter-based bonus pool. Miss your attack? Add to the pool. The pool then adds to the next attack. Keep missing, keep adding to the pool. Hit and the pool is flushed to restart at 0. Characters can still miss or even have a string of misses, but each miss will contribute to the chances of turning your fortunes around.

 

[Abraxas]

I'm with Stalker0 in that there doesn't seem to be much consolation in the prize.

I'd prefer that Daily powers behaved something like encounter powers. If you use one and hit, it can't be reused until after an extended rest. If you use one and miss - you just can't use it again during this encounter, but after a short rest it is available again.