D&D General Do you like LOTS of races/ancestries/whatever? If so, why?

[doctorbadwolf]

I agree it feels more like a Star Wars cantina.

Exactly what I like about it.

The world feels bigger and more vibrant to me if there are places where you can walk into a bar and see 30 different kinds of person.

I think of it a bit more like Gallopogos Islands than Star Wars, though. I think that when people assume that all these sentient species would have trouble existing in the same world, they’re experiencing a sort of confirmation bias issue. Probably has a name, but basically because our real world only has one sentient species of advanced tool users, folks feel like anything else is unbelievable, but humans and our various tool using cousins coexisted, traded in big caves where giant snails were kept in southern Europe, fought over resources without exterminating eachother, etc, for thousands of years. I see no reason why a world shouldn’t have a type of elf for every island.


Beyond that, most of human history is more “cosmopolitan” than humanocentric medieval D&D wants the world to be. There isn’t actually a time in recorded history where no one in Britain had ever travelled far enough to see cities where most people looked wildly different from them, or where trade ports didn’t tend to have people from Asia and Africa and Europe, speaking dozens of languages. Not only that, the most interesting settings in history, like colonial Mexico, were absolutely wild in the oddball combinations of peoples you could see in the same city market.

I want my D&D to be like that, and unless you have players who buy in hard to your setting and it’s cultures, the easiest way to get that vibe is with many races.

 

[overgeeked]

Sometimes it seems like the thing most homebrewers and 3PP alike do is create new races. Tons of them. I think 5E has an official count of what, 40, playable races? The number quickly reaches into the hundreds if you include all the 3PP content. The same thing can be seen over at paizo, and you even see folks creating tons of races for OSR style fantasy games.

My question is: does that appeal to you?

Yes. Up to a point.

Do you like a campaign world that has dozens or even hundreds of player option races?

Most of the time, no. Sometimes, yes.

If so, why?

Sometimes it fits thematically. Like with Spelljammer or Planescape. Other times it does not fit, like Dark Sun or Dragonlance.

What's the upside?

Reinforces theme and setting. It doesn't feel like Star Wars without all the aliens. It wouldn't feel like Dark Sun with all the options on the table.

For my part, I feel like there's a point where it gets too Mos Eisley or Pirates of Dark Water. Not only does too many races kill the wonder of non-human characters, but I feel like they become mechanical shticks and themes and there's nothing otherwise distinct about the races as cultures. They are just humans with funny hats and stat bonuses.

Available PC options doesn't equate to races present in the world.

Now, I can see the appeal of having a big pool from which to draw a few for world building. I don't want every world to look like Middle Earth, but a world that is just firbolgs, kenku, gnolls and deep gnomes might have appeal.

Thoughts?

To each their own. It's all swings and roundabouts.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I want my D&D to be like that, and unless you have players who buy in hard to your setting and it’s cultures, the easiest way to get that vibe is with many races.

D&D replaces many (human) cultures (as in "our" world) with many races.

Beyond that, most of human history is more “cosmopolitan” than humanocentric medieval D&D wants the world to be. There isn’t actually a time in recorded history where no one in Britain had ever travelled far enough to see cities where most people looked wildly different from them, or where trade ports didn’t tend to have people from Asia and Africa and Europe, speaking dozens of languages. Not only that, the most interesting settings in history, like colonial Mexico, were absolutely wild in the oddball combinations of peoples you could see in the same city market.

While I agree with you in theory, I think you are overstating the likelihood of most people in history experiencing such thing. Historically, other than pilgrimages, etc. most people didn't travel more than a few days from where they lived in general.

Exactly what I like about it.

No issues with that, but nothing that would generally appeal to me. To each their own.

 

[Zardnaar]

D&D replaces many (human) cultures (as in "our" world) with many races.


While I agree with you in theory, I think you are overstating the likelihood of most people in history experiencing such thing. Historically, other than pilgrimages, etc. most people didn't travel more than a few days from where they lived in general.


No issues with that, but nothing that would generally appeal to me. To each their own.

I did study this at university.

Having travelers in a city is probably fine assuming it's a historical setting.

Ad long as they're from reasonably close.

So no Aztecs in Europe pre 1492 or Samurai. Africans and Middle East yes.

18th century about 10k blacks in UK (population 5 million approx).

Venice had a house of Turks, Very little Muslims in UK until Elizabeth mostly diplomacy related.

Europeans turned up in China long before China and Japan reached Europe. Part of that was due to middlemen lying.

Trade was more common but lots of middlemen vs direct trade.

 

[Mecheon]

Mos Eisley is a different genre though so it's not apple to apples.

There is a good argument Star Wars is more of a Science Fantasy than Science Fiction, but mind, D&D's roots are well in the time when sci fi and fantasy didn't have their modenr split.

Mind, I'm a sucker for all sorts of different races. This is, however, because I come at this from Shining Force and Warcraft so my brain is very teeakerd towards that. "You got a Gamera, a phoenix, a jellyfish who may be a pop-culture martian, two birdmen, and a smattering of humans in your party? That checks" is basically how Shining Force be, and in Warcraft the idea of 'more elves' gets people annoyed as compared to us wanting half-giants, ogres, aquatic snake people, bipedal cobra people, centaur, or deer-centaur

 

[Vaalingrade]

Lots.

Mostly because...

For my part, I feel like there's a point where it gets too Mos Eisley or Pirates of Dark Water.

Dark Water was amazing and I want more of that.

Not only does too many races kill the wonder of non-human characters,

I'm not aiming for wonder in player characters. I'm aiming for fun and playing a New Weird Thing is fun. Wonder, to me, should come from the world and going to cool places and having cool abilities, not what skin suit I'm wearing at the moment.

but I feel like they become mechanical shticks and themes and there's nothing otherwise distinct about the races as cultures. They are just humans with funny hats and stat bonuses.

Exactly. I want a cool weird thing, but I'm not trying to do xenofiction. I seriously doubt anyone who complains about 'humans in funny hats' actually wants xenofiction. If they did, the races that always get allowed wouldn't be Scottish Dwarves and Racist Elves instead of Thri-Kreen and Tortles.

In a nutshell, I think of your Species as the framework to build the character around. It gives you a look and some in-born abilities and the more variety and options the better.

 

[Lanefan]

My question is: does that appeal to you? Do you like a campaign world that has dozens or even hundreds of player option races?

Short answer: not really.

If there's just a few PC-playable species the rest can be left as monsters; also there's less headaches around trying to balance them all. Further, it's easier to keep distinct niches open for each one that isn't Human.

For my part, I feel like there's a point where it gets too Mos Eisley or Pirates of Dark Water. Not only does too many races kill the wonder of non-human characters, but I feel like they become mechanical shticks and themes and there's nothing otherwise distinct about the races as cultures. They are just humans with funny hats and stat bonuses.

And this.

 

[John R Davis]

Not too many playable ones.

Having lots non playable ones adds to the wonder and fantasy of the exploration. IME/IMO

 

[doctorbadwolf]

D&D replaces many (human) cultures (as in "our" world) with many races.

That’s sort of my point, yes.

While I agree with you in theory, I think you are overstating the likelihood of most people in history experiencing such thing. Historically, other than pilgrimages, etc. most people didn't travel more than a few days from where they lived in general.

2 things.

First, I didn’t say most people travelled afar. I said there is no period in recorded history in which no one did so.

Second, we would need to pick a region and decade to make statements like the bolded with any seriousness, but there are plenty of times throughout European history where pilgrimages were something most people did at least once, and plenty of travelers on a “pilgrimage” caravan were going to a big city to trade something, to see something important, to escape their life, or literally just to satisfy wanderlust and curiosity.
The Canterbury Road was well traveled every year by people of all kinds, very much including serfs and poor freemen, for all manner of reasons.

No issues with that, but nothing that would generally appeal to me. To each their own.

Kinda goes without saying.


Anyway, my point is that Paris or London in 1300 weren’t ethnically homogenous places, they were cornucopias of diversity from all over Europe, SW Asia, Northern Africa, and smatterings of folk from further afield, and it frankly bothers me how much modern western fantasy tries to make “realistic” psuedo medieval worlds where no one has ever met a person who has ever seen a different time zone. It bothers me when world builders make fantasy less interesting than reality.

It’s like a DM not letting your acrobatic character do stuff that real world parkourists do all the time, even after you show them a video of a college student doing it as a hobby. (Or how damn slow 5e characters are using only the RAW)



And of course the other side of the coin is simply that I’d rather play in a setting reminiscent of Venice or the actual “Old West”, than one similar to the usual Hollywood version.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Not too many playable ones.

Having lots non playable ones adds to the wonder and fantasy of the exploration. IME/IMO

Why does their playability matter?