Do you like modrons?

[Dausuul]

Not to mention as Shemska alluded to - it's the higher ups that would order thousands of monodrones and other lower modrons to march on and level a town. For those low caste modrons, they won't relent, they won't hesitate or question, they won't be bribed or distracted - they just have orders to destroy the town. There is no malice as well as no sympathy. Just the orders. If they are ordered to destroy a town, none of them will turn back until every single wooden plank in that town is shattered and there is nothing but a barren field. The only way to stop a lower caste modron army in that situation is to kill every single one of them (or deal with their bureaucracy in getting the orders rescinded, but good luck with that). That's very frightening in a borg/replicator sort of way (admittedly, both of those are sci fi concepts, so I can understand with thinking they don't fit in a fantasy setting for that reason even if I disagree).

You make a good argument for why characters should fear modrons. This does not change the fact that players are apt to fall over laughing (and lose all immersion) when told their town is under attack by dice with legs. There's a reason modrons usually end up being used as comic relief.

 

[Zil]

Modrons

Modrons have played a role in quite a few of my campaigns (both 2E and 3E). In fact, there was a rogue modron in the adventuring party in my longest running Planescape game. My players seemed to really like the critters and their very alien thinking.

It's too bad they were never made OGL. It would be nice to see some designers who actually liked modrons do a serious updated treatment of them to keep them alive.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Can you talk to him and see if he really likes me? - - because Froghemoth wants an answer from me by Thursday.

.....froghemoth in a prom dress...


*shudder*

 

[lutecius]

I'm with TwinBahamut. The idea of modrons as a supremely ordered, alien race, the "angels" of pure law, is cool, but I think the implementation as "dice with legs" (or "spheres with legs") is just stupid.

Get rid of the limbs, make them levitating crystalline polyhedrons that move stuff by telekinesis, and I might be interested; it's still not entirely my style, but I can at least tolerate the idea.

And to those who bring up gelatinous cubes and destrachans and owlbears and the like... I think those are stupid too. What's your point?

Same here. I’ve never liked dnd’s joke monsters. And yes, that includes beholders and rust monsters. When I do use them as a dm, I generally re-fluff them beyond recognition.

I’m not a fan of dnd’s old and new alignments or cosmologies either but I once had the equivalent of LN outsiders in my campaign. They were insectoid automatons (mostly ants and wasps) called the Myrmidons. They were a mix of modrons, formians and the borg (steampunk, not scifi), wanted to put some order in the multiverse and enslaved people with command harnesses. Not very original but scarier and less silly (or so I hope) than “dice with legs”.

I really don't understand the claim that pretty much any pre-4e outsider that wasn't modeled upon (or just usurped the name of) something from mythology only existed because of symmetry (this isn't saying that you made that claim, but it's a general observation that I've seen the claim tossed around rather often). You can have cool races that fit distinct concepts without being there just to fill out a spot in a spreadsheet.

Wasn't that the case with modrons, notwithstanding all their “coolness”? Had there been as many LN extraplanars as there were celestials and fiends, maybe modrons wouldn’t look so much like the inevitable (pun intended) LN race.
Mind you, I find filler races less irritating than the misuse of mythological concepts in dnd’s cosmology like Maruts as the stoic embodiments of law... ugh, especially when Indra dwells in Limbo and don’t get me started on “Limbo” and “Nirvana”…

 

[EATherrian]

I love Modrons. As an implacable horde of pure law, with no mind to good or evil they remind me of the grey goo of nanotech nightmares. I like the shapes and the ranks, but then I really like symmetry.

 

[Tewligan]

Maybe their time has passed, but if you knew anything about the Great Wheel cosmology from prior editions of the game, you would not say that. Modrons from Mechanus are every bit as necessary to the D&D creature collection as demons, devils or slaad.

Dude, I've been playing for 25+ years, and I'm running a 1e campaign right now - no need to instruct me on the background of earlier editions, thanks! I didn't say that modrons aren't part of the D&D canon, I said they're not sword-n-sorcery.

 

[Arnwyn]

I absolutely love modrons, since 2e Planescape and DiTerlizzi's 're-imagining' of them.

Edit: Further, the Great Wheel cosmology is the only cosmology I care about.

However, I strongly feel that only rogue modrons should be presented as being "funny" - they're meant to be off-kilter because of their condition, so having them amusingly obsessed with cataloguing facial expressions or whatever is fine.

Normal modrons, however, should be more straightforward. A little eerie, a little frightening even if you don't know how to deal with them.

Totally agree. That's how they appear (on the extremely rare occasion that they do appear) in our games. The PCs are always a little nervous when interacting with them...

 

[avin]

So far more than half people here support modrons.

I don't remember seeing similar posts on Wotc forums, maybe developers was just thinking that players dislike them and maybe that's not entirely true.

This does not change the fact that players are apt to fall over laughing (and lose all immersion) when told their town is under attack by dice with legs. There's a reason modrons usually end up being used as comic relief

That's not necessarly true. It depends a lot of the campaign mood. If the DM describe modrons like biased "dice with legs" then it's time for fun. If he describe them as strange mettalic creatures showing no expression while destroying a town full of innocent people... well, it's another thing.

I can assure you no players of mine has laughed when a modron shows up, they are always intrigued when it's the first time they meet them in game, no laughs so far.

PS. English's not my mother language, so I won't dare trying to impress you with a better Modron description... =/
PPS. Sometimes I use Rogue Modrons to a quasi comical effect too...

 

[Gothmog]

I voted that they are silly/bad, but they are not irredeemable. However, they do have two severe strikes against them.

Flaw 1: They were created as part of the awful Great Wheel alignment symmetry scheme. As such, they are stuck as being compared to being like Angels or Demons, but don't live up to that comparison in the least.

Flaw 2: They are impossible to take seriously. A large part of this is the art portrayals and the decision to make them both dice-shaped and anthropomorphic. There is no way to take something that looks like that seriously.

If Modrons were broken away from the "avatar of law" concept a little bit and given a more complex role in the world, then they would be more interesting. For example, casting them as elemental beings of crystal that try to forge ordered structures within the Elemental Chaos would break down the flawed symmetry and let them establish their own niche a bit better. I say crystal because I can't help but imagine that they would be much more cool if they were elaborate crystalline structures of both incredibly detail and perfect spherical symmetry, beautiful but completely alien to anything that has legs or eyes.

Basically, Modrons would be great if they were re-imagined as thoroughly as many other D&D creatures were in the transition to 4E. I don't like a lot of those monster revisions, but for some creatures in similar situations to the Modrons it worked very well.

Edit: To clarify, I would prefer it if Modrons looked like big crystalline structures, with complexity starting with something like this, and ending up in things more like these (and yes, I am aware that the latter link is referring to 4-dimensional polygons).

Wow, I'd never thought of Modrons like you described. I always saw them as joke monsters like owlbears, rust monsters, and beholders. They seemed completely irrelevant and nonsensical, and only there to balance out the Great Wheel (which I also detested). Modrons were clearly included in the 1e MM2 because a Lawful Neutral extraplanar creature was needed to balance out demons, devils, slaad, etc. I tried to use them a few times in 1e, but it never went over well- the player reactions were anywhere from confused "what the hell?" looks to outright derision.

With 2nd edition, we got the cutsie modrons of DiTerlizzi, which were even worse. They were the ewoks of 2nd edition- too cute, too cuddley. During 2e, when I played in games involving them, they were laughed at outright when we saw TD's artwork for them- they were THAT stupid.

TwinBahamut brings up a cool idea though- make the modrons truly alien and weird, and they could have a place without being a joke. They need to be less anthropomorphic, without faces, eyes, limbs, etc. I really like the idea of crystalline entities from another dimension whose goal is to spread their dominion and bring ultimate order, permanence, and stability to the multiverse. Maybe they are large floating, telepathic crystalline creatures, or maybe they are more like nanites, and take appropriate forms (or infect other native lifeforms) based on the task at hand. I could see them colonizing an area, and weird crystalline growths start developing as they converted lands around them into something more like thier home dimension. Expansion and order at all costs- now THAT would be creepy. I'm gonna have to think about this more, but a re-imagining of modrons is sorely needed.

 

[Greg K]

Maybe their time has passed, but if you knew anything about the Great Wheel cosmology from prior editions of the game, you would not say that. Modrons from Mechanus are every bit as necessary to the D&D creature collection as demons, devils or slaad.

I started with 1e and I didn't like them in prior editions or think of them as necessary

Btw, Christian, do you have an index of Scrollworks articles w/ issue and author? Also, do you have back issues available? If you could message me as to not take up space in the thread, it would be appreciated.