Do you not play WOW? Forked Thread: Wil Wheaton plays and reviews 4th.
- Thread starter Herschel
- Start date
Ycore Rixle
First Post
I play WoW, although I haven't logged in since Thanksgiving and have played about five hours total since basketball/Science Olympiad season started.
Some random thoughts...
One of the great design successes of WoW is the number of different ways it can be played. Solo, group, PvP, PvE, and all kinds of combinations and permutations of those.
WoW is very social, but not in the same way that tabletop RPGs are. It probably says something that even during my busiest time of the year, I keep up with my tabletop games but don't play WoW.
It amazes me how people in WoW wait around for hours to get a dungeon or raid group together. Often, even a pre-arranged, in-guild dungeon or raid group goes off an hour or more late.
I remember sitting in a seminar at Gen Con run by James Wyatt that was titled something like, "What can we learn from WoW?" That was a year before 4e was announced, I think. Such a seminar would be met by much wailing and gnashing of teeth now, I think, at least on the internet.
There is in fact a lot to learn from WoW for tabletop RPGs. But mostly those things are general (nonetheless important) game design principles rather than tabletop RPG-specific examples. I think 4e went about 50% on learning and adapting the right things vs. the wrong things from WoW. I think WoW went about 90% on learning and adapting the right things vs. the wrong things from D&D, other tabletop RPGs, and other computer RPGs.
Some random thoughts...
One of the great design successes of WoW is the number of different ways it can be played. Solo, group, PvP, PvE, and all kinds of combinations and permutations of those.
WoW is very social, but not in the same way that tabletop RPGs are. It probably says something that even during my busiest time of the year, I keep up with my tabletop games but don't play WoW.
It amazes me how people in WoW wait around for hours to get a dungeon or raid group together. Often, even a pre-arranged, in-guild dungeon or raid group goes off an hour or more late.
I remember sitting in a seminar at Gen Con run by James Wyatt that was titled something like, "What can we learn from WoW?" That was a year before 4e was announced, I think. Such a seminar would be met by much wailing and gnashing of teeth now, I think, at least on the internet.
There is in fact a lot to learn from WoW for tabletop RPGs. But mostly those things are general (nonetheless important) game design principles rather than tabletop RPG-specific examples. I think 4e went about 50% on learning and adapting the right things vs. the wrong things from WoW. I think WoW went about 90% on learning and adapting the right things vs. the wrong things from D&D, other tabletop RPGs, and other computer RPGs.
Vocenoctum
First Post
For the "value" thing, I also never liked the idea of subscription based, but the main irk for me was that you paid upfront PLUS monthly. The simple answer is measuring your game enjoyment hours vs the amount you pay.
Lots of games nowadays are 10 hour games, it's quite irksome to pay $60 for such. Oblivion, Mass Effect, I got 90-100 hours from each for that $60.
So, $15 a month for WoW may not be much when you consider the amount of time you get. It just depends on how much of that time is enjoyable. Is there a grind for xp? Sure. But there are also questlines full of plot, and humor, and fun. PvP isn't about advancing a storyline any more than Halo multiplayer is, or for that matter, Football.
And aside from all that, there is Guild Wars, which I played quite a bit of. It can easily be considered a solo-game, but you can group as desired. It has a strong central storyline, and it's not a monthly fee. It's an MMO, but not quite as "much" of one as WoW and such.
The "WoW in D&D" has nothing to do with the style, but with the gameplay or mechanics of things. Power use vs cooldowns, assigning roles such as tank, healer, et cetera. Agro mechanics may be a requirement of a video game, but D&D has intrdouced Threat to the mix quite clearly.
Lots of games nowadays are 10 hour games, it's quite irksome to pay $60 for such. Oblivion, Mass Effect, I got 90-100 hours from each for that $60.
So, $15 a month for WoW may not be much when you consider the amount of time you get. It just depends on how much of that time is enjoyable. Is there a grind for xp? Sure. But there are also questlines full of plot, and humor, and fun. PvP isn't about advancing a storyline any more than Halo multiplayer is, or for that matter, Football.
And aside from all that, there is Guild Wars, which I played quite a bit of. It can easily be considered a solo-game, but you can group as desired. It has a strong central storyline, and it's not a monthly fee. It's an MMO, but not quite as "much" of one as WoW and such.
The "WoW in D&D" has nothing to do with the style, but with the gameplay or mechanics of things. Power use vs cooldowns, assigning roles such as tank, healer, et cetera. Agro mechanics may be a requirement of a video game, but D&D has intrdouced Threat to the mix quite clearly.
megamania
Hero
I never thought about it before but you are truely correct. WoW seems to possess the people completely. They live and breath it with little left for other subjects.... friends, family those kind of things.....
I don't play MMOs. I see no reason to buy the game and then have to spend a monthly subscription charge- especially, when I have a weekly tabletop game.
Thankfully, the two rpg players that I do know play WoW don't talk about it at our table top games and rarely talk about it outside of game- unfortuantely, I can't say the same for a couple of co-workers, know I play tabletop, keep encouraging me to try WoW.
Thankfully, the two rpg players that I do know play WoW don't talk about it at our table top games and rarely talk about it outside of game- unfortuantely, I can't say the same for a couple of co-workers, know I play tabletop, keep encouraging me to try WoW.
thedungeondelver
Adventurer
WORLD OF WARCRAFT has no intrinsic RPG value to it, so no, I don't.
When you lose fights, you lose simply because you didn't mash buttons fast enough. Might as well be a single webpage with a Shockwave/Flash version of GALAGA on it.
Monkey Boy
First Post
WoW has stuffed up the lives of two people I know. My Brother in law plays the hell out of it. Seems almost constantly logged in. He has a two year old and a one year old he neglects, good thing my sister puts in the effort single handedly raising them. He wont work, all he does is play WoW all day and night. Its really tragic.
My other buddy is in almost an identical position. He's diagnosed with depression. Now I am no expert at this but I think isolating yourself in your home and playing WoW non-stop isn't really the answer here. He also had a newborn which had to be put into day care because he wasn't putting in the effort at being a parent. After a few years he's started to get a little better but not much.
WoW is the timesink from which they both hide from the realities of life. It makes me very sad.
WoW might be ok for you but for some people its addictive escapism is too much of a lure and they not only hurt themselves but their families.
My other buddy is in almost an identical position. He's diagnosed with depression. Now I am no expert at this but I think isolating yourself in your home and playing WoW non-stop isn't really the answer here. He also had a newborn which had to be put into day care because he wasn't putting in the effort at being a parent. After a few years he's started to get a little better but not much.
WoW is the timesink from which they both hide from the realities of life. It makes me very sad.
WoW might be ok for you but for some people its addictive escapism is too much of a lure and they not only hurt themselves but their families.
Vocenoctum
First Post
Not to take away from the situations you quote, but it's the same logic that says D&D causes suicide. If they weren't playing WoW, maybe they'd be alcoholics or gamblers.
WoW is as huge a time sink as you let it be, definitely, but the generalizations of the WoW haters is amusing. I've had to deal with all kinds of fans in my day, from buddies that wouldn't shut up about anime, to folks that wanted to explain to me why one captain of the enterprise was better than another. As I said earlier, if you are deep into a hobby, you probably do the same, but just don't realize that the people around you don't care. (Or, surround yourself with people that share the interest.)
dougmander
Explorer
Name any hobby, and you'll find people who lose themselves in it to avoid problematic aspects of their lives they are having trouble confronting or accepting. You'll also find lots of people who enjoy it as a pleasant diversion, in moderation.
As for me, I don't confuse WoW with anything remotely approaching a roleplaying experience. Like at least one other poster, I was into it for a while but got bored when my character got to level 50 or so, and I woke up to the fact that it would continue to be a kill-and-loot grind indefinitely. I do still play WoW occasionally, and, man, when I'm in the mood for it, it is tons of mindless fun.
As for me, I don't confuse WoW with anything remotely approaching a roleplaying experience. Like at least one other poster, I was into it for a while but got bored when my character got to level 50 or so, and I woke up to the fact that it would continue to be a kill-and-loot grind indefinitely. I do still play WoW occasionally, and, man, when I'm in the mood for it, it is tons of mindless fun.
