Do you not play WOW? Forked Thread: Wil Wheaton plays and reviews 4th.


And yet, I've tried enough WORLD OF WARCRAFT (and EVERQUEST and GUILD WARS) to have an informed opinion, and yeah, it is true.

Huh!

I assumed your statement was simply hyperbole, so I didn't respond to it. To justify that it is true though, you're ignoring any situation where you simply pulled too much danger to yourself, or were too low level for something, or...

I accidentally wandered into Felwood (level 45+ area, just north of a level 20 area) with my character at level 23, and died as soon as something spotted me, by your statement, I didn't mash a button fast enough.

I assume you're refering to timing in general with "fast enough", since the "global cooldown" means you can't just keep mashing a button and get any effect other than "that ability is not ready yet".

You also ignore any of the Raid strategy involved in actual battles where movement and spell/ buff ability matter.
 

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And yet, I've tried enough WORLD OF WARCRAFT (and EVERQUEST and GUILD WARS) to have an informed opinion, and yeah, it is true.

Huh!

Neither games are hard, after all, what videogame is actually hard to master. But saying that they come down to the speed of button mashing is just plain wrong. Especially if we are talking EQ. That was all about timing.
 


WORLD OF WARCRAFT has no intrinsic RPG value to it, so no, I don't.


Interestingly, you get out of things what you get into them.

A co-worker talked about the great roleplay he had when he was playing it, because he had friends that he did that with. You know, same as in D&D.

I don't get heavily into roleplaying in WoW, but I do behave differently on my paladin than I do on my priest or rogue.

When you lose fights, you lose simply because you didn't mash buttons fast enough. Might as well be a single webpage with a Shockwave/Flash version of GALAGA on it.

If WoW was a FPS, yes, you might have something.

But given the global cooldown, fast button-mashing will often have no effect at all, except to get the message that you can't do that yet.

Typically, when I lose in WoW, I either bit off something that was more than I could chew and couldn't get away from, had bad luck on adds (i.e. them spawning right on top of me and joining in the fight) or got out-thought or out-fought by another player. In very few of those situations could mashing buttons faster get me out of it.

I'm going to agree with Vocenoctum and guivre that you really don't know what you're talking about.

Brad
 

I play Vanguard......

/crickets....

I also played WOW for about two years and EQ1 before that.

Seems like the discussion always comes down to a spot where the internet polarizes it into extremes. "I" have much more fun role playing at my table top games. I also roleplay in Vanguard. My wizard is a higher level diplomat than he is adventurer.

So to say there is no RP value to the game would be misleading. Another point we seem to miss...I have people in my table top game that joined from playing WOW. They love DnD...and GURPS, and HERO, etc.

(We also play Star Fleet Battles...THAT probably makes us a rather unique bunch of folks)

Hmmmm...DnD and MMOs, using the framework of a character developed by a rule system in an imaginary world governed by a rule system...interacting with other individuals in using the same framework...sounds good to me!

(of course there are plus and minuses to each....flavor to taste)
 

Eh, I've played WoW almost since it's release. I have one level 79. It took me a year to level to 60 (when that was the cap) and another year to level to 70. Shows you how much I play. Now, the latest expansion I've played more often and it seems easier to level but other factors in my life allow for it now as well, since I've had more free time recently.

Anyway, I also run a D&D game where 2 out of the 5 players (3 of us play counting myself) and the conversations often slide into a discussion of WoW. Of the other 3 players 2 play DDO and the other guy used to play WoW.

We'd get more accomplished if we didn't discuss WoW, but I'm just as guilty as the others about bringing it up.

I'd institute a "no talking about WoW" rule but I'd probably end up breaking it myself :-)
 

I don't play WoW. I experienced what I am like with this sort of game when I played City of Heroes. I was obsessed enough that I kept doing it, but I was never able to keep up with any of the hard-core players (I would still be looking around or trying to figure out how to get from point A to point B) while the group I was with would already be there and done with the mission. Even if I did catch up, I had no concept of "roles" ala blaster, healer, whatever, I just did whatever felt fun at the time, and that made me a very sub-par player. [BTW that feeling of being stuck in a one-note role is one of the things I like least about 4E. Different thread, probably!]

The balance between fun, time, effort ultimately led me away from games of this nature. I know I would probably be one of those obsessed/play-all-the-time guys if I let myself try WoW. And yet a lot of the time I spent doing it I would find it a joyless chore but I would keep on doing it. That's not a great situation or where I want to be with my life right now. :)
 



I'm going to disagree and say that you don't really know what you're talking about.

All right. That is, of course, your right.

Of course, it'd be nice if you could provide some counter-examples to show that I don't, in fact, know what I'm talking about. Mostly because, well, I've had such a completely different experience than what you stated above, that I'd sincerely like to know how you can honestly come by that opinion.

Brad
 
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I don't play WoW. I experienced what I am like with this sort of game when I played City of Heroes. I was obsessed enough that I kept doing it, but I was never able to keep up with any of the hard-core players (I would still be looking around or trying to figure out how to get from point A to point B) while the group I was with would already be there and done with the mission.
The problem I had with CoH was having a hero, and seeing I needed to reach uber levels in order to fly. I got Jump, then Slooooow Hover, then just stopped playing. MMO's are all pretty similar anyway, like a big dungeon crawl in D&D. Sure the NPC at the bar gave you a semblance of plot, and you can talk to folks here and there for "roleplaying", but you're not getting into detailed personalities.

Even if I did catch up, I had no concept of "roles" ala blaster, healer, whatever, I just did whatever felt fun at the time, and that made me a very sub-par player. [BTW that feeling of being stuck in a one-note role is one of the things I like least about 4E. Different thread, probably!]
Amusingly enough, a druid in WoW can spec as either a tank, damage (melee-cat), damage (ranged-blaster) or a healer. Most other classes are configured into damage, or a damage/tank, or damage/healer. "Controller" is a subset of powers, not a class.

Granted, currently you have only one "spec" and need to pay to change it (in game money), but soon "dual-spec" will allow two specs to be easy swaps. So it's actually easier to change roles in WoW than in 4e. (You'd want to change gear also in most cases, but you generally have an excess of gear, except for the top tier stuff.)




The balance between fun, time, effort ultimately led me away from games of this nature. I know I would probably be one of those obsessed/play-all-the-time guys if I let myself try WoW. And yet a lot of the time I spent doing it I would find it a joyless chore but I would keep on doing it. That's not a great situation or where I want to be with my life right now. :)

It's always a decision the individual makes, and there is plenty of "grinding", but not in the (from what I hear) EQ style of randomly killing boars over and over until you level. Quests generally have a semblance of plot and chain together over areas and such.

There's competition if you want to go that way, or collecting. My friends and I tend more to be the collector types. I love minipets and will spend more time getting a cute penguin than I will trying to get a new set of boots.

And of course, plenty of folks just hang around and chat with friends with a common interest, ala chat rooms/ web forums.
 

How about we stop declaring who knows, or does not know, what they are talking about? How about we instead switch to, "You have not provided me with evidence that convinces me you are correct."
 

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