Do you pull the chain?

[FireLance]

Isn't having your PC pull the chain "because the DM <whatever>" an example of blatant metagaming?

Yes!

Why is that okay in this case (if your opinion is that metagaming is usually "not okay")?

1. As I get older, I find that I take a more relaxed attitude towards metagaming.

2. If the DM doesn't give me a good in-game reason to either pull or not pull the chain, I'm going to fall back on metagaming*.

* Which, I realize, is itself a pretty metagamey reason. It's practically zen. Or fractal. Or possibly quantum.

 

[Bullgrit]

I wonder if the poll results to this question would have been different 30 years ago?

Bullgrit

 

[Mallus]

Yes!1. As I get older, I find that I take a more relaxed attitude towards metagaming.

Me too! I think it's because as I've gotten older, I've come to the conclusion that metagaming just means you recognize and are comfortable with what you're actually doing ie. playing a game. It's a form of the self-acceptance that comes with age. Or something. Maybe I should be discussing this with my therapist instead .

Also, I pull the chain every time. If I don't pull the chain, how will I ever find out what happens when the chain gets pulled?

 

[Reynard]

DM's don't kill PCs. Players kill PCs through the choices they make.

Let's assume the chain kills whoever pulls it and a PC pulls the chain, thus dying. The player is mad and finds it unfair. Why? The only reasonable answer is that the consequences of pulling the chain didn't match up with the player's expectations. So what was the player expecting? Why?

These are the questions we have to ask ourselves, as DMs, when we put pullable chains in our dungeon designs and have those chains kill PCs. If we are designing for a known group of players -- whether the kids down at the game store or the old grumps we've been playing with for 30 years -- we should be prepared for the players' expectations. We don't necessarily have to meet those expectations, but we have to know that Bob is going to be pissed when the 10 ton block falls on his dwarf and kills him outright, or that Jane pulls every lever and chain her half elf comes across.

If we are designing for an unknown quantity -- players at a con, or some group who will purchase the module -- we have to design for a "reasonable" group of players.

In the end, what makes the chain important is its impact on future chains. If the ceiling opens like a pinata, dropping magic items and treasure on the PCs, chain pulling is going to be a lot more common in the future than if the aforementioned 10 ton block drops on the party.

Personally, though, I would set up the scenario with just a touch less mystery and a touch more temptation. Making it apparent that the chain opens the treasure vault *in addition to some possible unknown effect* makes the resulting player hemming and hawing that much sweeter.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Good post, Reynard. "You must spread more yadda yadda yadda."


RC

 

[Festivus]

Personally, I wouldn't pull the chain, but someone in the party invariably would. So I would just do my best to be in the hallway instead of the room when that happens. I would just have to find some way to live with the haunting screams for help, followed by the inevitable crunch of bone and flesh.

 

[Ourph]

I would just have to find some way to live with the haunting screams for help, followed by the inevitable crunch of bone and flesh.

I find that clinking the coins in the bag of gold that you don't have to split 4 ways anymore helps to drown out that sort of thing.

 

[pawsplay]

I'd argue that a DM has two responsibilities. First, there's the world creation aspect. He needs to create a consistent world with creatures, perhaps some of whom would end up constructing such a dungeon.

Second, the DM has the responsibility of the spotlight. Describing every brick, rock, etc in a dungeon is kinda tedious. The DM needs to mention what is important, interesting, and relevant.

So, if I see a chain in the dungeon, I'm going to presume that the DM has found it to be important, interesting, or relevant. Those all seem like good reasons to pull the chain.

I never quite know what to do with players that think that because there's a monster, they are meant to fight it and win.

What about player responsibility? Shouldn't the players interact with the world in a way that makes sense? The chain is a danger to PCs whose players feel little responsibility to think the situation through.

 

[nedjer]

I never quite know what to do with players that think that because there's a monster, they are meant to fight it and win.

What about player responsibility? Shouldn't the players interact with the world in a way that makes sense? The chain is a danger to PCs whose players feel little responsibility to think the situation through.

Players should consider it a win if they survive with or without the clothes they were wearing when they went in. They're kind of asking to go out in a blaze of glory if they fight everything.

 

[fanboy2000]

Let's assume the chain kills whoever pulls it and a PC pulls the chain, thus dying. The player is mad and finds it unfair. Why? The only reasonable answer is that the consequences of pulling the chain didn't match up with the player's expectations. So what was the player expecting? Why?

All good questions. In my experience, player's get upset even when they survive.

Player: I pull the chain!
Me: O.k. [rolls dice] Does a 22 hit your reflex (touch AC, dodge, whatever you play, it could be a 22 reflex save)?
Player: Yes.
Me: O.k. it does 30 points of damage.
Player: I'm unconscious.
Cleric: Sigh...

So far so good. Until later, when me and player and player are hanging out, he asks me what level or CR the trap was. (Note to new DMs, think of your selves as magicians, never tell your secrets! Learn from my mistakes!) I tell him. He goes crazy because the trap is, in his not so humble opinion, either to high in level and CR or the trap is to deadly for that level and CR. Attempts to point out that he survived fall on deaf ears.