Do you pull the chain?

[Pseudonym]

I wonder if the poll results to this question would have been different 30 years ago?

I don't think so. A 10x10 room with a chain dangling from the ceiling? 4E or hell even Chainmail that just has a big neon sign saying 'THIS IS A TRAP" but even knowing its a trap we pull it anyway, even if there was no secret door in the equation.

Thirty years ago a room with your description would be right at home in, say Ghost Tower of Inverness. Hell in the original Tomb of Horrors there was a carved face in the wall with an open mouth containing inky blackness. How many of you stuck your hand in it?

 

[Reynard]

What I don't get -- and (for those who missed it the first time), I'm asking this of people who otherwise think metagaming isn't a good thing -- is why it's good to metagame "Hey, let's pull the chain, the DM should have something fun for us," and not metagame "Hey, I know the fighter was replaced by a doppleganger, and it'll be fun if my character kills him and claims to have known all along"?

I think you are describing two very different kinds of metagaming. In the first example, the player *thinks* he knows what's going to happen -- even if only generally -- and is acting on that expectation. In addition, that expectation and curiosity can kind of be transferred to the mind of the PC: after all, we are presumably talking about a character that goes into deep dark holes full of doom for fun and profit, who has seen a chain or lever or two and who has experienced the result. The second example is different. He's acting on specific information that he shouldn't have. Using "player knowledge" isn't metagaming -- it is in effect cheating. If the player simply had a "hunch" it'd be different, but even observing notes going back and forth between the fighter's player and the DM is player knowledge.

It's also important to remember, I think, that metagaming and player knowledge and the like are tools we use at the table to create atmosphere and make the game more enjoyable. The chain thing is fun simply because we -- people who play the game -- know that pulling chains can lead to grisly doom. The DM random rolling dice behind the screen and pretending to consult his notes is fun because we -- those who play the game -- know that sometimes random die rolls result in grisly doom (and the hands of some wandering monster, frex). We can think of the search-for-traps roll behind the screen and the DM's evil smirk as he says "You don't find any traps" as the tension building soundtrack to the game, where sweat beads on the borw of the hero as he decides to cut the red wire.

 

[Janx]

Yes. Of course I would pound a piton in under the chain, secure a rope the end of the chain, run it through the piton and then string the rope through the doorway and pull it from there!

I voted no, under similar reasoning that the chain was likely a trap.

You've engineered a way around that. Good thinking!


If there's a room with a secret door, and the "switch" is not hidden, then the switch is likely not for the secret door. A secret door is likely to have a secret switch.

 

[pawsplay]

If they did that, they'd never enter a dungeon.

So how do you explain Somali pirates, high altitude climbers, and police officers?

 

[Doug McCrae]

So how do you explain Somali pirates, high altitude climbers, and police officers?

I'd say those activities are all far less dangerous than dungeon delving.

 

[Bullgrit]

So how do you explain Somali pirates, high altitude climbers, and police officers?

I'd say those activities are all far less dangerous than dungeon delving.

If pirates attack a PC party, they will be cut down and thrown in the water. If police try to arrest a PC party, they will be beaten unconscious in 3 rounds. High altitude climbers? The party wizard's apprentice will hit him with a grease spell and call it a day.

But dungeons chew up PC parties like an aardvark on an ant hill.

Bullgrit

 

[Odhanan]

I totally pull the chain, yes.

 

[pawsplay]

I'd say those activities are all far less dangerous than dungeon delving.

Oh, how many survive to 20th level?

 

[Doug McCrae]

Oh, how many survive to 20th level?

This is real life, not D&D.

 

[pawsplay]

This is real life, not D&D.

Right. And the fact that a 10th level character might survive up to 19 x 13 = 247 mortally dangerous situations means that dungeon delving is, statistically, safer for imaginary adventurers than real piracy is for real pirates.