Do you "save" the PCs?

[Raven Crowking]

How is this significantly different from a DM who asks if they'd like him to roll in the open but the players would prefer a bit more leniency from the unsympathetic dice?

Perhaps it is not.

If I liked dungeon crawls, and I wanted to know if my players did, I would ask them if they wanted fewer dungeon crawls, rather than asking them if they minded the dungeon crawls, because the former suggests (to me) that my interest is in what they want, while the latter suggests (again, to me) that I want them to confirm that they are okay with my preferences.

And, IMHO and IME, few people say No to being okay with their DM's preferences, unless they are willing to DM themselves or get someone else to.

YMMV.

I may be wrong.


RC

 

[Fifth Element]

I withdraw the objection.

Great! Now withdraw the dismissive sarcasm and we'll be on to something!

 

[Raven Crowking]

If Raven Crowking's players asked him to fudge at times, what would his reaction be?

That's an interesting question. I honestly don't know the answer.

I think I would try to introduce the token pool mechanic, described above. I would then attempt to get the players, rather than the DM, to determine when fudging occurred.

Failing that, I think I would ask someone else to run the game. I'd go read a book, or go hiking, or go fishing.

My experiences with fudging have been that bad, on either side of the screen.

EDIT: Another possibility is to run a while with fudging, and see whether or not they want the fudging to continue after that point. Honestly, I would be doing so to see if their opinion would change. I couldn't see myself doing it indefinitely.


RC

 

[Fifth Element]

And, IMHO and IME, few people say No to being okay with their DM's preferences, unless they are willing to DM themselves or get someone else to.

If that's what you need here you go: in my group, everyone has DMed. Every single member of the group has DMed the group at one time or another. Yet it always comes back to me to be the primary DM.

Now, I'm sure there's some reason you can think of that this does not actually mean they enjoy my style of DMing for them, but on the face of it that would seem to say they approve. And desire it. There's more than enough DMs to go aroung in the group, yet I'm the one being asked to run the show at least 80% of the time.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

If Raven Crowking's players asked him to fudge at times, what would his reaction be?

My guess?

"No problem. Here's a pool of tokens (as many as you'd like). When you want me to fudge, ask me to spend one. Feel free to ask for more whenever you like."

Personally, I don't think the experiment would last long in a game like D&D because, IME, players pretty quickly grow tired of "no risk."

You're assuming that I fudge because I prefer to fudge in general.

No, I'm assuming that you fudge because you believe that fudging makes your game better, and you prefer to have a better game. Or, short-handing, you prefer to fudge. I haven't actually stated anything about whether you like to do it for any other reason. In fact, I hadn't even considered the question until now.

That's incorrect.

That's interesting. Do you have a preference, then, as a player, yourself? Fudge or no fudge? Secret or open?

 

[Fifth Element]

Failing that, I think I would ask someone else to run the game. I'd go read a book, or go hiking, or go fishing.

And this is where we differ. I try to give the players what they want. It's just a game, after all, and if they want me to fudge I'll do it. If they want me to roll in the open I'll do that instead. You seem to be very hard-line, "my way or no way" about it. I can't fathom being that way about a game of make-believe.

 

[Fifth Element]

My guess?

"No problem. Here's a pool of tokens (as many as you'd like). When you want me to fudge, ask me to spend one. Feel free to ask for me whenever you like."

The hypothetical question was not if they players wanted the ability to fudge for themselves, but that the DM fudge for them. Raven Crowking has answered the question himself, at any rate, which makes this moot.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Great! Now withdraw the dismissive sarcasm and we'll be on to something!

Is this intentionally ironic? If so, I salute you!

Surely, when you wrote that the DM had no real authority, you must have known of the threads I mentioned? Didn't you participate in them?


RC

 

[Fifth Element]

That's interesting. Do you have a preference, then, as a player, yourself? Fudge or no fudge? Secret or open?

Good question. I think that in a long-term campaign that has been built up over time, I'd prefer a bit of fudge. For shorter games I'd say no fudge.

 

[Fifth Element]

Surely, when you wrote that the DM had no real authority, you must have known of the threads I mentioned? Didn't you participate in them?

In fact, no I do not recall them.

If you're referring to a specific argument I made, bear in mind the context may be different, or even that I've changed my mind since then.

But unless you want me to bring jig-winking into the discussion, perhaps we should leave other threads out of it.