Do you see anyone taking this class?
- Thread starter DWARF
- Start date
mooby said:
Yeah, but archers of all people _don't_ need more pluses to BAB. With bracers of archery, stacked enhancement bonuses etc, they can usually hit anything they want; if the archer can't hit it, then chances are nobody else can either. If I was playing an archer, I'd go for feats and nifty powers to overcome the other defenses that get thrown at me: concealment, cover, wind wall, DR, etc.
Also, while hit points don't matter quite as much to an archer as a melee tank, you still want some of them. Think of it as insurance, for those occasions when the uber monster smashes past the tanks or teleports behind them.
Drakmar
Explorer
DWARF... have you checked out Mutants&Masterminds?
you should.. it is a classless system. and it can easily be modified to be a levelless system (they even give you some rules for it)
and.. as to adapting it to a particular genre.. that's easy.. the dm just adds restrictions to who can take something etc.
I reckon that my next "fantasy" game will be using these rules. very very simple.
and you only need yer d20.
you should.. it is a classless system. and it can easily be modified to be a levelless system (they even give you some rules for it)
and.. as to adapting it to a particular genre.. that's easy.. the dm just adds restrictions to who can take something etc.
I reckon that my next "fantasy" game will be using these rules. very very simple.
and you only need yer d20.
jmucchiello
Hero
This is just all wrong. Start with this class and you have 4 attacks per round at level 10! Who needs Weapon Focus after that? Even the lack of hit points are not that important when your 3rd level character can make full attacks. Take Power Attack as soon as possible (along with cleave, etc)
20 levels of the class and you have a BAB that rivals most Dragons.
20 levels of the class and you have a BAB that rivals most Dragons.
Terraism said:
And a single slow spell would have him swinging once per round, a single phantasmal killer will have him dead, and a single charm or dominate spell will have him swinging for the other team.
Without saves you are far too weak to compete with other classes. But most people are correct for the multiplayer abuse.
Actually, if that's what you're doing, I think it's fine.
I was thinking that what you meant by "no feats, no saves" was that the class had Fort, Reflex, and Will poor, and didn't get any other special abilities. If you really mean, "A 10th level character in this class will have a BAB of +20/+15/+10/+5, no skills AT ALL, no class abilities, and saves of +0/+0/+0", then I think it's appropriately balanced.
At 10th level, he has 6+9d6 hit points, and if he has an average constitution, the average fireball of a 10th level caster could easily kill him. Failing that, a hasted wizard could cast "Hold Person" twice, and our chum would be out of the picture.
Multiclassing is trickier to think about -- there are so many different options. But in general, I think that the more flexibility you allow, the weaker the classes should start at. Flexibility is power in itself, after all. That's why the designers set the Point Buy default at 25 points: while that's fewer points than the average random roll produces, the fact that you can move those points EXACTLY where you want them to be means that you can be more powerful than someone who rolled up their character and got the equivalent of a higher point-buy character.
-Tacky
I was thinking that what you meant by "no feats, no saves" was that the class had Fort, Reflex, and Will poor, and didn't get any other special abilities. If you really mean, "A 10th level character in this class will have a BAB of +20/+15/+10/+5, no skills AT ALL, no class abilities, and saves of +0/+0/+0", then I think it's appropriately balanced.
At 10th level, he has 6+9d6 hit points, and if he has an average constitution, the average fireball of a 10th level caster could easily kill him. Failing that, a hasted wizard could cast "Hold Person" twice, and our chum would be out of the picture.
Multiclassing is trickier to think about -- there are so many different options. But in general, I think that the more flexibility you allow, the weaker the classes should start at. Flexibility is power in itself, after all. That's why the designers set the Point Buy default at 25 points: while that's fewer points than the average random roll produces, the fact that you can move those points EXACTLY where you want them to be means that you can be more powerful than someone who rolled up their character and got the equivalent of a higher point-buy character.
-Tacky
jmucchiello
Hero
Way too low. Try 500 XP * level acquired at as a baseline for a balanced feat. Change the multiplier up or down depending on the feat's power.DWARF said:
You'd want to take a few levels of this if you are either a straight martial class (read fighter) and it also comes useful for rogues. Indeed, I would argue that this is *most* useful to combat rogues. For the combat rogue (as distinct from the general rogue), they are up to their eyeballs in skills. Saves are a bit lacking, but the main problem which stops them from really getting in the sneak attacks is hitting. Take a few levels of this and you can deal with a large amount of this problem- not to mention getting extra attacks very quickly indeed.
As for taking it single-class, the answer is no. Sure, you have a good BAB, but with *nothing* else, you're weaker than a vanilla fighter in a straight-up fight (very few feats, fewer HPs- and no weapon/armour proficiencies). Even if you sink a fair amount into Power Attack, the fighter will almost certainly still outmatch you.
As for taking it single-class, the answer is no. Sure, you have a good BAB, but with *nothing* else, you're weaker than a vanilla fighter in a straight-up fight (very few feats, fewer HPs- and no weapon/armour proficiencies). Even if you sink a fair amount into Power Attack, the fighter will almost certainly still outmatch you.
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