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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Indaarys" data-source="post: 9046603" data-attributes="member: 7040941">Which again is bunk, because as said, relative to LOTR, even low level DND is well in excess of LOTR mythic past. Everyone here gets that what you're trying to say is low level DND is trying to be close to regular humans, but thats not even what low level DND actually is, and as said, its still in excess of what LOTR depicts, before you even address how magic is depicted. The reality is this viewpoint is being thrown off because magic in DND is, by design, violating its own mixed genre whereas Martials, on the whole, aren't. If all classes were made equal to the Champion Fighter, DND is still on a level well in excess of LOTR. Levels and class design frankly don't even matter. All characters in DND are in excess of Mythic LORE by 5th level simply by virtue of being able to fight and kill not just a dragon, but at least half a dozen of them every single day, and their capabilities only go up from there.And even then, depending on the party make up, their tactics, and any items already gained, they could take on that challenge or their equivalents even earlier than 5th.The simple fact that, within DNDs fiction, they can even fight a single dragon at all is what sets DND apart from LOTR dramatically, nevermind fighting and killing multiple of them every single day. And its that fiction mind that tends to be neglected as a factor in these debates. People can hem and haw all they like about Martials not being able to do anything, but Martials are able to fight and kill dragons, even by themselves with the right misc equipment and a good plan. That sets them far, far, far above LOTR, and even farther above real life, regardless of whether or not one likes what abilities they have or what game mechanics they have to use to do "cool things", as though chopping up a dragon with an axe isn't inherently cool.</blockquote>

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