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Do you see Fighter players at your own table?
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9057700" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Okay, I can agree to that. But that ends up rearing the ugly subjective head of "impacts fun". Again, in the Berkley study the person chosen at the beginning of the game to win by getting double the resources reported that the game was very fun. They would report they have less fun if the other player ALSO got double resources, but despite impacting fun, it creates parity and is a more fair game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How complicated is unneccesarily complicated? Is make an attack and then force a save unnecessarily complicated? </p><p></p><p>What if instead of a supernatural straitjacket I offer a supernatural cardigan? Is that going to be less fun? What about supernatural overalls? </p><p></p><p>And while you claim substantial backlash, I will point out that many people have begged for martial AOEs to return, because they desperately need them. And for all the "4e was BAD" talk, we often find 5e cribbing 4e's homework and hiding it. Because 4e got a lot of things correct.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In those 14% of all games, where a bladesinger is chosen, how many lacked any martial character? Because we have found there are a good chunk of games that don't have fighters (30% or so?), so what would the data tell you if every time the Bladesinger hit the table, the martials either quit, weren't picked, or started multiclassing to get spells? </p><p></p><p>It would tell me there is a problem, because one subclass seems to be able to replace an entire class, and that's a balance problem and might point to a redesign being needed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9057700, member: 6801228"] Okay, I can agree to that. But that ends up rearing the ugly subjective head of "impacts fun". Again, in the Berkley study the person chosen at the beginning of the game to win by getting double the resources reported that the game was very fun. They would report they have less fun if the other player ALSO got double resources, but despite impacting fun, it creates parity and is a more fair game. How complicated is unneccesarily complicated? Is make an attack and then force a save unnecessarily complicated? What if instead of a supernatural straitjacket I offer a supernatural cardigan? Is that going to be less fun? What about supernatural overalls? And while you claim substantial backlash, I will point out that many people have begged for martial AOEs to return, because they desperately need them. And for all the "4e was BAD" talk, we often find 5e cribbing 4e's homework and hiding it. Because 4e got a lot of things correct. In those 14% of all games, where a bladesinger is chosen, how many lacked any martial character? Because we have found there are a good chunk of games that don't have fighters (30% or so?), so what would the data tell you if every time the Bladesinger hit the table, the martials either quit, weren't picked, or started multiclassing to get spells? It would tell me there is a problem, because one subclass seems to be able to replace an entire class, and that's a balance problem and might point to a redesign being needed. [/QUOTE]
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