toberane
First Post
LGodamus said:
I took Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu for a couple of years, and I loved it! unfortunately, the guy who was teaching it in our area moved away, and the only way I would have been able to continue training in it would have been to drive 3 hours to Tulsa, OK or 4 hours to St. Louis.
I studied Chin Na for about 3 months after that, and I enjoyed that too, but then I ran out of money (I was a college student at the time) and since then I have been too out of shape to start anything basck up. I would like toi study taijutsu again, but lacking that I'm thinking about going with Aikido. I really enjoy joint locks, holds, and throws.
S
shurai
Guest
zdanboy-
I'd recommend hung gar myself, because of all the arts you listed, it is the oldest (I'm pretty sure, anyway). In a lot of ways, the martial arts that grew up later on in Korea and Japan owe their heritage to Chinese martial arts, where they were founded, as far as I know, in the original Shaolin temple before it was burned.
Also, I recommend it because it is a very complete system with a very deep collection of strikes, locks, limb breaks, throws, defensive maneuvers, and other stuff. Also, like all Chinese martial arts that I know of it is very weapon-happy once you've been doing it for awhile, which is to say that you will learn many different weapons eventually. It can also deal with many different tactical situations, such as multiple opponents. Hung Gar also presumes that your opponent(s) are not just thugs, but that they are also skilled martial artists. This means that the typical Hung Gar technique has many preemptive strategies built into it, such as assuming that your attack will be blocked so that the attack hits anyway. In a similar vein, Hung Gar is also known for having excellent stancework.
takyris-
Hung Gar actually means 'Hung Family,' though the contemporary meaning of the name is 'Fist art of the Hung Family.' It was originally combination of Tiger and Crane kung fu (which already existed at that point), though over the years other animals were added (now there's also leopard, snake, and dragon).
I'd recommend hung gar myself, because of all the arts you listed, it is the oldest (I'm pretty sure, anyway). In a lot of ways, the martial arts that grew up later on in Korea and Japan owe their heritage to Chinese martial arts, where they were founded, as far as I know, in the original Shaolin temple before it was burned.
Also, I recommend it because it is a very complete system with a very deep collection of strikes, locks, limb breaks, throws, defensive maneuvers, and other stuff. Also, like all Chinese martial arts that I know of it is very weapon-happy once you've been doing it for awhile, which is to say that you will learn many different weapons eventually. It can also deal with many different tactical situations, such as multiple opponents. Hung Gar also presumes that your opponent(s) are not just thugs, but that they are also skilled martial artists. This means that the typical Hung Gar technique has many preemptive strategies built into it, such as assuming that your attack will be blocked so that the attack hits anyway. In a similar vein, Hung Gar is also known for having excellent stancework.
takyris-
Hung Gar actually means 'Hung Family,' though the contemporary meaning of the name is 'Fist art of the Hung Family.' It was originally combination of Tiger and Crane kung fu (which already existed at that point), though over the years other animals were added (now there's also leopard, snake, and dragon).
Drakmar
Explorer
Actually Shurai,
Hung Gar has always had the 5 animals, it is just one of the main forms focuses heavily on the Tiger and Crane, and many offshoots have focused on those aspects specifically. (this is what I have learned/been taught). I do admit though, the system was founded by a guy who learnt his art from a Shaolin Monk who was an expert in fu jao (tiger fist).
One of the cool things about Hung Gar is that it starts as an external kung fu, and after much practice it becomes in internal one.
some of the important sets that the Hung Gar student are:
gung gee fook fu - Cross Tiger Fist - which teaches you how to strengthen your body and breathe.
sup ying - Ten Forms Set - a set including the five animals (tiger, crane, dragon, leopard, and snak, and the five elements - metal, wood, fire, water, and earth. A more advance set.
tit sien - Iron Thread Set - advanced set, teaches the internal stuff - for chi and stance training.
Hung Gar has always had the 5 animals, it is just one of the main forms focuses heavily on the Tiger and Crane, and many offshoots have focused on those aspects specifically. (this is what I have learned/been taught). I do admit though, the system was founded by a guy who learnt his art from a Shaolin Monk who was an expert in fu jao (tiger fist).
One of the cool things about Hung Gar is that it starts as an external kung fu, and after much practice it becomes in internal one.
some of the important sets that the Hung Gar student are:
gung gee fook fu - Cross Tiger Fist - which teaches you how to strengthen your body and breathe.
sup ying - Ten Forms Set - a set including the five animals (tiger, crane, dragon, leopard, and snak, and the five elements - metal, wood, fire, water, and earth. A more advance set.
tit sien - Iron Thread Set - advanced set, teaches the internal stuff - for chi and stance training.
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
I always wonder about these notions. I mean, sure, of course, Japanese and Korean martial arts owe a great deal to the Chinese tradition -- ALL aspects of Japanese and Korean culture owe a lot to Chinese traditions. But the idea that all martial arts in some way descend from Shaolin seems pretty suspect to me.shurai said:
Everyone, everywhere, has always had a need to defend themselves. Some people, some times, get interested in figuring out how to do it better, and start up training people how to do it. One usually sees this happening in a culture where a long period of conflict is suddenly ended, but regardless, one sees this trend occuring in so many cultures at so many different points of history that I wonder if any one point in time and space can with much legitimacy claim to be the "founding" of martial arts.
The fact that, for example, all Chinese arts employ elements drawn from Shaolin (not saying they do; what I know about Chinese arts will fit comfortably into a Chinese teacup) doesn't in any way prove that Shaolin is the foundation of all those arts -- any of them could have formed independently and picked up Shaolin traits as time went by.
Anyway, you didn't actually SAY that Shaolin was the founder of all martial arts, I'm just curious as to what the majority opinion is here -- is Shaolin where it all comes from or not?
I say not. I say that Shaolin very clearly hit on some powerful techniques not only for fighting but also for teaching, and that those propogated outwards and were adopted (or parallel-y developed) by groups and styles all over the place. But martial arts are a human institution that no one culture has a founding claim to.
And zdanboy -- I agree. Go with Hung Gar.
*shrugs*
It sounds pretty cool, alright.
S
shurai
Guest
Drakmar-
I should mention that I'm a beginner in Hung Gar, so please take everything I say with a grain of salt regarding the origins and forms and stuff, and thanks for offering corrections (though truthfully I don't really know which story is the truth, I can only repeat what I've heard from my older brothers and from independent study).
Barsoomcore-
You're right, it's definitely not like places didn't have their own fighting techniques before the Shaolin temple's art left China! I was mostly referring to certain known facts, like karate being mostly based on the kung fu techniques that Okinawans learned from Chinese traders and their escorts. What I think is really fascinating is how the modern arts differ from eachother, though they share common roots.
As to all martial arts come from the Shaolin temple, for certain they didn't. Japan's sword arts and (I believe) aikijutsu and aikido are proof of that. I don't really think that all Chinese arts came from the temple specifically; instead that is just the impression that I got from reading on the 'net and elsewhere and listening to my older brothers. For example, I'm pretty sure Tai Chi's origin is sort of lost. Anyone know any differently?![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
-S
I should mention that I'm a beginner in Hung Gar, so please take everything I say with a grain of salt regarding the origins and forms and stuff, and thanks for offering corrections (though truthfully I don't really know which story is the truth, I can only repeat what I've heard from my older brothers and from independent study).
Barsoomcore-
You're right, it's definitely not like places didn't have their own fighting techniques before the Shaolin temple's art left China! I was mostly referring to certain known facts, like karate being mostly based on the kung fu techniques that Okinawans learned from Chinese traders and their escorts. What I think is really fascinating is how the modern arts differ from eachother, though they share common roots.
As to all martial arts come from the Shaolin temple, for certain they didn't. Japan's sword arts and (I believe) aikijutsu and aikido are proof of that. I don't really think that all Chinese arts came from the temple specifically; instead that is just the impression that I got from reading on the 'net and elsewhere and listening to my older brothers. For example, I'm pretty sure Tai Chi's origin is sort of lost. Anyone know any differently?
-S
NoOneofConsequence
First Post
As I understand it.
Shaolin kung fu has had a massive influence on Chinese fighting arts or wu shu, dating back at least a thousand years.
But even in China, there are kung fu arts that owe nothing to the Shaolin tradition - Chin Na is one, IIRC.
Also, a vast number of Chinese arts have weapons forms, but not all Chinese weapons were mastered by the Shaolin monks, the Nine Dragons Trident being one that comes to mind.
On the subject of weapons though, I would hazard a guess that the influence of Shaolin is the main reason why Chinese hand to hand combat has a number of extremely complex weapons as a part of its "standard" arsenal (Case in point, the three section staff). In Europe the simpler weapon drove the more complex off the battlefield (by and large), whereas the more complex weapons have remained in CHinese fighting arts due to the influence of Shaolin (at least in part).
This can lead to an interesting observation concerning Japanese martial arts. As I understand it Japanese martial arts tend to teach relatively straight forward weapons, due I would think to the Japanese preference for simplicity as a philosophical principle. So I'd have to say that Shaolin's influence on Japanese MA can't be too great, since the Japanese have shown a brilliant capacity for taking what they want and leaving the rest.
This excursion into historical musings was brought to you by the guy who should be writing a report to the CEO.
edited for spelling
Shaolin kung fu has had a massive influence on Chinese fighting arts or wu shu, dating back at least a thousand years.
But even in China, there are kung fu arts that owe nothing to the Shaolin tradition - Chin Na is one, IIRC.
Also, a vast number of Chinese arts have weapons forms, but not all Chinese weapons were mastered by the Shaolin monks, the Nine Dragons Trident being one that comes to mind.
On the subject of weapons though, I would hazard a guess that the influence of Shaolin is the main reason why Chinese hand to hand combat has a number of extremely complex weapons as a part of its "standard" arsenal (Case in point, the three section staff). In Europe the simpler weapon drove the more complex off the battlefield (by and large), whereas the more complex weapons have remained in CHinese fighting arts due to the influence of Shaolin (at least in part).
This can lead to an interesting observation concerning Japanese martial arts. As I understand it Japanese martial arts tend to teach relatively straight forward weapons, due I would think to the Japanese preference for simplicity as a philosophical principle. So I'd have to say that Shaolin's influence on Japanese MA can't be too great, since the Japanese have shown a brilliant capacity for taking what they want and leaving the rest.
This excursion into historical musings was brought to you by the guy who should be writing a report to the CEO.
edited for spelling
Last edited:
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