Do your players ever suffer real defeat?

[Thanee]

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad, if the effects weren't so drastic. 'Stop <enter random event> or the world is going to end' should not be overused.

Better, if they fail to do something, and there are consequences to be felt, that this might make some future events more difficult for them, but give them a few more chances to thwart the evil guys plans, so a single defeat does not equal a lost war (or however the saying goes). It should be a setback, but not the end of it all.

Bye
Thanee

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Well there are setbacks and outright defeats.

Our heroes got thrown back when we tried to magically assault a fortress entrance. We penetrated a little bit but then the defences held a strong point where we knew we'd get ground down on their terms. He he, we tried to sneak through a side tower... unfortunately that was unguarded because a remnant spirit haunted it. Needless to say we were again bundled backwards.

Then there was a fully fledged defeat where the heroes tried to assault a Yuan-ti stepped pyramid temple. An initial victory wasn't followed up on - the heroes rested and restocked their magics, but the reorganised Yuan-ti won that day. The pivotal point occurred where the Ruling Abomination snapped the Cleric and resisted the vengeful magical onslaught. After that something like 2 heroes had died and their bodies were not easily recoverable.

In the case of a decisive loss, I've learnt to immediately encourage the players including the dm. It is a shame to let a crushing loss end the characters exploits - I mean even Conan got crucified on the tree of woe right? What I'd want to do is collaborate with the players to move the story forward to the next adventure where the characters are again able to progress.

If the recovery is done right I think there is a great opportunity for character development, and there's an instant plot thread that will conjure a bit of emotion from the players.

 

[Driddle]

I've experienced real defeat twice as a player. Once, when I had to give up my bike to the GM after my PC drew a very special card from a modified Deck of Many Things. And then again when my girlfriend left me for one of the other players at the table.

My characters, however, have remained upbeat and somewhat successful throughout their gaming lives. ... And I resent them for it.

 

[joshuakanton]

Play it out.
First, the effects of the ritual might be different from what the cultist expect. Perhaps a powerful evil creature created a ritual that will resurrect them and disguised it as doom and gloom. Evil creatures lie to other evil creatures and fanatics tend to see what they want to see, not what is actually there.

Second, play out the victim’s deaths. Have the families approach the heroes and forgive them. Give the heroes the option of attending the funerals of the victims. Make the NPC’s real.

After that, design a situation that gives the heroes redemption. Let them save a group of people, but this time put the heroes between the villains and the victims.

My thoughts.

 

[Dykstrav]

Yeah, many times. It especially happens when the players assume that every challenge can be overcome by whaling on it with pointy sharp things or blasted with arcane energy. Whenever the party goes into a situation without being prepared (such as without shopping in town when they have the chance or not researching critters that they may fight), they usually get their stuff handed to them on a plate.

 

[Wrathamon]

Well I just met defeat at the end of a campaign. We were playing City of the Spider Queen... We were an ECL 17 party of four characters. The DM decided to really make it tough and redesigned the final encounter making the BBEG a true necromancer with a bunch of mechanics from Libra Mortis, Heroes of Horror and book of vile darkness and picked spells from Spell Compendium.

She was like a CR 25 encounter but a min/maxed CR 25 using divine metamagic cheese with us stuck in the ethereal plane and her in the prime to start the fight off and all her symbol traps going off, using Time Stop and Gate to summon two Demon Lords. Her Casterlevel for necromancy spells was like 46 or 47... I cant calculate the true EL of the encounter.

We pretty much got kicked around... I used my antimagic field but got forcecaged from the prime material plane so I was pretty much stuck because I was in an antimagic field. The wizard got anchored to the ethereal plane and it was up to the psion with about 50 power pts left and the dragon shaman... she was immune to acid so he was pretty ineffective. After awhile I was able to do a bit of damage, but then the demon lords came (from BOVD not the fiendish codex) and kicked the crap out of us.

I died, the wizard is lost in space and the psion and dragon shaman got out of dodge.

Nice end to a campaign I suppose.

On to Ravenloft I guess!

 

[Joker]

Wow, thanks for all the comments. I haven't created a thread in General in awhile and I like the outcome.

I should note, however, and which I didn't clarify because I wrote the OP at 2 am or so and thus was quite tired. The idea was that the ritual would bring a part of Hell/Abyss to the gameworld. It would not mean the end of all things but simply that the world that the heroes knew would have changed. And that would be the "start" of the campaign. However the execution of this pivotal moment was something other than was desired. I feel now that perhaps I should have handled it differently. Turned it into a description or maybe have their characters elsewhere when the ritual happened. Things to think about I suppose.

While this campaign ended sometime ago, I'll learn from it and plunder ideas from it and from the aforementioned comments for the next one.

But keep the thoughts flowing. I ain't done plundering.

 

[Wombat]

Have my players ever suffered real defeat?

Yep.

Ask 'em about the musketeer campaign where Cardinal Richelieu bested 'em.

Ask 'em about the Ars Magica saga where demons destroyed the town the lived near and then caused everyone to believe the magi had done it.

Ask 'em about the dungeon where they all died at the hands of the evil sorcerer.

Oh yes, it may not be often, but if my players lose, they lose...

 

[Numion]

Nope, no real defeats. It's all make believe

 

[LizardWizard]

I've TPKed my players' characters 2 times in the last 6 months.
Not that I'm a killer DM, quite the opposite. So bad stuff happens, and one should get along with it.