Do your players hate your house rules?

[Azlan]

Here's my advice for implementing a bunch of house rules: If you are DM'ing a group of players, half or more of whom are new to you, you should DM the game mostly by-the-book, with maybe just a few minor house rules, until you've earned their trust and respect. (A "mini" campaign works best for this, such as The Red Hand of Doom.) Once you've played with them for a while and convinced them you're a fair and competent DM, you can start a new, full-length campaign, where you can start implementing a bunch of major house rules. Not only will they then be more receptive and willing to suffer through testing out a bunch of your house rules, but you will have come to know their own tastes and playing styles for roleplaying games, thus you will know what kind of house rules might be a good fit for them and what kind might not sit well with them.

(I learned this the hard way. )

 

[BASHMAN]

One of my players HATES that I use Charisma for Willpower Saving throws, and not Wis

I really like that, actually. If CHA is the force of your personality, it makes sense.

 

[Spatzimaus]

My players LOVE my house rules, because I'm just that awesome.

Well, okay, maybe it's more to do with the fact that they're partially THEIR house rules. I'm generally the one who comes up with the specifics of a rule change, but the ideas come from the whole group, and everyone agrees on the final version.

The only real catch was that after a certain point, we had so many house rules that we were almost playing a different game. So, in the end, we ran two campaigns: one with minimal rule changes, and one where we took our full house rules and rolled them into a complete homebrew system. The second was much more popular, actually.

 

[Flynn]

Spatzimaus,

Is a copy of your house rules/homebrew available for mass consumption, or at least could I look at it? I enjoy reading what other groups have come up with, even if I don't end up using them, because it sparks my imagination and creativity.

Thanks for your consideration,
Flynn

 

[DungeonMaester]

My house rules typically replace rules with roleplaying, which makes combat streamlined and more fun, because players have more lean way for their actions with out having to worry about only being able to do something by a feat or other mechanic.

The change isn't crazy, where you can CDG all day long, but its no small change ether.

---Rusty

 

[Spatzimaus]

Spatzimaus,

Is a copy of your house rules/homebrew available for mass consumption, or at least could I look at it?

I've posted a few pieces of it here on this board for feedback (the exotic material system, for instance), but not most of the important bits (races and classes), although a few of these have been mentioned in other threads. I keep meaning to post the rest (it's been playtested by our group, of course, but it could still use some feedback), but I just defended my PhD a couple weeks ago, so I haven't been gaming much lately. And I'd post more bits today, but I'm about to go on vacation for a week, so I'll probably wait until I get back for that. After all, it's hard to have a discussion when you're not around.

It's a pretty severe change. Take, for instance, the level system.
> There's no max HP at level 1, and no x4 skill points. (This effectively lowers CRs by 1; a level 3 character under this system is roughly comparable to a level 2 under the core system.)
> Everyone starts at level 3 (level 1 are children, level 2 are teenagers)... including the commoners.
> Every race's benefits are linked to HD. So, Humans are a 1-level race (effectively they get a weak HD plus their full bonuses); most races have two levels (making them something like LA +0.5), but a few have more, with one race having 9.
> Until you've taken all of your Racial Levels, they must be at least half your levels. So you can go race-class-race or race-race-class but not race-class-class.
> There's no "Favored Class" mechanism. Multiclass as much as you want. (We use a UA-style fractional system for BAB and saves.)
> The core "Basic" classes are the six d20 Modern classes (Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated, Charismatic... each ties to a different stat.) No class-based Defense bonus, no Action Points (although we're thinking of putting those back in), no "medium" saves. On the other hand, we switched to an AD&Dish Weapon Proficiency system, plus most classes get armor or shields.
> There are three "Advanced" classes (Mutant, Channeler, Wizard), corresponding to the three styles of magic (Innate, Ritual, and Freeform). To enter one of these, you must have at least one Basic class level, and take one Affinity Feat. Each develops off of your Basic class (the FIRST Basic class, if you've taken several); that is, the class skill list is simply the Basic class' list plus a few extra magical skills. Likewise, Bonus Feats and Talents are chosen from the Basic class' list, plus any extras added by the Advanced class. Since you have at least one Racial level and one Basic level, that means no one has magic before at least level 3 (for Humans) or 4 (for everyone else).
> You could do Prestige classes a la d20Modern, but we rarely bothered; most PCs had magical ability, and it was flexible enough. Only one player played a pure non-magical character who focused on skills and some weapons (think Batman), and he thought that mixing the six core classes was enough.

And that's just the basics of the leveling system. It gets stranger from there.

 

[Flynn]

Interesting. I've been playing with Grim Tales, which starts with D20 Modern as its base and introduces D&D abilities as talents, dropping the whole concept of advanced and prestige classes along the way, so I have some good experience with some of your base class concepts. I find that I really like the GT action points, and am using them in the next fantasy campaign. I'd definitely like to learn more about your house rules, as I think there's some good stuff in there. For example, how are you using an AD&D-like weapon proficiency system? (I'm using Weapon Groups from Unearthed Arcana, which suits my needs very well.)

If you haven't looked at GT yet, there's an SRD that might prove interesting to review. Sadly, it appears to be offline at the moment.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Spatzimaus]

I'm not saying that our concepts were all new; the whole magic/cosmology system is element-based, so it has bits in common with Elements of Magic, even though we made our system before ever seeing theirs. A lot of the bits ended up looking a lot like other systems, and some of that was just coincidence. The Action Points are almost definitely going to be reintroduced; they're just too "fun" to ignore, but we're still not sure exactly how we want to implement them.

The weapon proficiencies aren't QUITE like AD&D, in that they're a bit more general. Basically, we hated how weapon-based classes would lock themselves into a single weapon type through Weapon Focus/Specialization, Improved Critical, etc., and even the AD&D versions were a bit too restrictive in that way.

There are 8 Martial weapon Categories: Bladed (swords), Hafted (axes and polearms), Blunt (maces, hammers, staves), Piercing (daggers, spears), Projectile (bows, crossbows, slings), Thrown, Ray (including firearms), and Natural (unarmed attacks, claws, gauntlets, touch spells).
An MWP feat adds one category. Most weapon-based classes, and Humans, start off with "Novice Weapon Proficiency", which gives you one category IF you didn't already have NWP from another class (so you can't multiclass to get extras), and all classes add more as you level up. There's the usual -4 penalty if you use a weapon you're not proficient in (which includes throwing a dagger if you have Piercing but not Thrown). A few double weapons have multiple categories, when their two ends don't match (Gnome Hooked Hammer).

Within each Category, each weapon is divided into three Groups based on its size relative to the wielder: Light weapons are those up to one size smaller than the wielder, Medium is the same size, Heavy is one or more sizes larger (the "or more" is rarely used, obviously).
All "Light" weapons are treated as Simple, i.e. you're proficient with them even without having the entire category; since all Natural weapons are light, you get that one automatically. (This mostly works the same as 3E, but it does change a few things; handaxes and short swords are now Simple, while heavy crossbows and heavy maces aren't.)

When you take Weapon Focus, Specialization, etc., you choose a single Group (like "Medium Bladed"). All bonuses apply to all weapons within that group. For instance, Weapon Focus: Medium Bladed gives you bonuses with the Longsword and Scimitar, of course, but it also gives the Two-Bladed Sword, Gythka, Wakizashi, Mercurial Longsword, Bladed Staff, and Double Scimitar, all of which are exotic.

Additionally, there are a handful of Exotic categories. An exotic weapon is simply one that has at least one exotic category in addition to its martial ones. (A quarterstaff is a Blunt Martial weapon that also has the Double Weapon exotic category). One EWP feat unlocks one exotic category. You can still use the weapon without the EWP, but there's a penalty. Only rarely is it the usual -4 to hit; in most cases it's something simple like "you can't use the weapon as a double weapon".

 

[theredrobedwizard]

I have several olde school converts in my two gaming groups. The rules they hate, in no particular order.

1) Max Hit Points at each level up.
2) Max gold at character creations.
3) 32 point buy.
4) Pretty much any book is available, and the only thing outright banned is the CA Ninja, because the OA Ninja is so much better.

Out of 10 players total, 2 hadn't played 3e before, and raised quite a ruckus when I brought up those rules during the character creation process; something about diceless character creation being an abomination against god or something.

Not everyone hates the house rules, though, so that very vocal minority (4 out of 10) that dislike them can either put up (run a game) or shut up.

-TRRW

 

[Storyteller01]

I only seem to have one person who doesn't like the house rules, but he's the power gamer of the group. He's used to the rules fitting a certain way and can't figure out how to manipulate the newer rules.