Does a Feat that Raises Skills = Skill Ranks?

[Kel]

A character is trying to meet the pre-reqs for a prestige class, and the class requires a certain number of ranks in a skill (5 ranks in Hide). Can he meet that pre-req by taking a feat that gives him a bonus to the skill (like the Stealthy feat)?

I know that TECHNICALLY a bonus is not a rank, but I was wondering if anyone knows of a faq on this or how others do it...

Thanks!

 

[Hypersmurf]

I know that TECHNICALLY a bonus is not a rank...

Right.

Would you let him meet the class requirement as a gnome with a 12 Dexterity and no ranks in Hide? He has a +4 size bonus to Hide, and a +1 Dexterity, for a total of a +5 modifier.

Requirements of the form N ranks in a skill do, indeed, require ranks. Often, a requirement of 10 ranks in a skill is there to ensure that nobody can enter that class before level 8 - it's not until level 7 that someone can have 10 ranks in any skill.

If you let it work from the modifier, someone could meet a prerequisite of '10 ranks in Hide' at level 1 - it's not hard to achieve a +10 modifier to that skill.

-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

Like Hypersmurf said. It's not ranks. Bonuses are additions to ranks. Ranks are like base attack bonus. You might get a bonus to attack, but it doesn't mean your base attack bonus increases.

 

[Kel]

That's what I figured. Oh well. I guess I was hoping that the skill-raising feats might work differently than your general skill bonuses because they would seem to involve a bit of training similar to skill training. BUT, you're right, if it's not a rank, it's not a rank.

 

[melkorspawn]

It also mandates a particular character level before you can take the feat. There is no way for someone to take a level of shadow dancer until their 8th character level (7 Rogue, 1 ShadowDancer, or whatever your class combo is) because it has a 10 rank requirement, which you can't meet until 7th level, because of the max ranks rule.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It also mandates a particular character level before you can take the feat.

Now why didn't I think of that?

-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

There are a few very limited ways to increase your ranks in a skill outside of gaining a level.

1) The Codex Anathema wonderous item from Lords of Madness. It grants the user 5 additional ranks in Knowledge (Dungeoneering), 2 ranks of Knowledge (Arcana) and 2 ranks of Knowledge (The Planes). It also gives a +2 inherent bonus to Intelligence, reduces your Wisdom by 2 and costs 37,500gp.

2) The temporary ability from the Void Disciple called Moment of Clarity grants a number of ranks in any skill equal to the relevant ability modifier.

3) The Illithid Savant (I don't recall which book it's from...Underdark? Savage Species? Lords of Madness?) allows you to exceed your normal limit in a skill when you add a devoured brain's skill ranks.

 

[Saeviomagy]

It just shows how stupid it is for PrCs and feats to rely on skill ranks, when really that's a meaningless measure if you're looking for "how good someone is at something".

 

[Mistwell]

It just shows how stupid it is for PrCs and feats to rely on skill ranks, when really that's a meaningless measure if you're looking for "how good someone is at something".

I wish they would just list "Minimum character level X" for Prestige Classes sometimes.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It just shows how stupid it is for PrCs and feats to rely on skill ranks, when really that's a meaningless measure if you're looking for "how good someone is at something".

Well, Mistwell used the BAB analogy before - an attack bonus of +40 doesn't give you any extra attacks, if only +5 of it is from BAB.

BAB, base save bonus, and skill ranks are used as prerequisites or requirements, even though you pretty much never add just your BSB to a saving throw roll, or just your ranks to a skill check roll.

Someone with a +15 modifier to Knowledge (Religion) but no ranks in the skill cannot answer a DC 11 question on the subject; someone with a -5 modifier that includes one rank can (with a decent roll). There are some differences between ranks and other bonuses.

-Hyp.