Does anyone do non-overpowered anymore?

[ThirdWizard]

But, in a low magic world, would the PCs even realize that someone was invisible? Or at least quickly. I remember a DM of ours was running a low magic game for us and we complained that all we ever fought were goblins and other humans, so he decided to throw a pair of Barghests at us in the next adventure apparently. Nearly wiped us out.

One of them levetated into the air, taking us off guard, and another in wolf form moved around behind us. Long story short, rogue got chomped and we ran like little sissies. Made us feel so more heroic. Note that we were level 7 at this point, and these shouln't be that bad, but we were a fighter/barbarian and two rogues who had no idea what a charm was or why one guy decided to approach the wolf creature. Not to mention some weird floating goblin! Plus I think it had DR because my arrows weren't doing much... not that my character had ever experienced anything like DR before!

Of course, I don't know what your world is like. Maybe its low magic but spellcasters are well known and their tactics are understood? We didn't see a single wizard in our low magic campaign, and only one sorcerer, a kid who had just manifested his abilities. Some clerics were known, but they're controled by the clergy and arn't really allowed the freedom of adventuring. One was with us for a while and that made things much easier. For a long time the "spellcaster" in our group was an NPC bard who specialized in self buffs.

I admit in these circumstances, the problem isn't finding a wizard or other spellcaster that wants to kill you, its finding some random magical beast that your characters have no idea about and can do things you deemed impossible only minutes before. CRs stop working, but that goes without saying, and I'm sure you realize that. It's just hard sometimes. Very very hard.

 

[clark411]

I run Exalted... so, I guess my campaign certainly is overpowered, in every way, shape, and form. My peasant will kick your fighter's butt.. nyah ^_^

I wont pick a side as to which is better (low or high power) but I do have to admit that I'm seeing more products released designed to make for higher and higher powered settings and characters. I'll leave it to the market gurus to say if the market follows the interests of the players or vice versa.

 

[hong]

A few points:

One reason I am seriously in favor of lower-magic games (hopefully you've read this entire thread to know in what context I have placed this concept) is the agonizingly lame "Magik-Item-Quickie-Stop," where "adventurers" may stroll on down to some Ye Olde Shoppe and just sort through magical trinkets at their leisure.

I keep hearing semi-coherent ranting about ye olde magick shoppe all the time, and I've yet to see anything of the sort in three years of 3.xEd.

Yes, the books give detailed rules and guidelines for pricing items with all sorts of funky powers. No, this does not imply that such items are readily available for sale in a supermarket-like environment. It means that IF the characters want such an item, and IF they can find someone willing to make one, OR by some fortuitous occurrence someone has already made one, THEN the DM has a ready-made way of determining how much of their gold and/or other items will be used to pay for it. The rules are simply a way of avoiding tedious arguments about prices and economics and such, so that everyone can get back to the game. If you're one of the rare breed who likes tedious arguments about prices and economics, then of course you can always make stuff up.

The ONLY items that I've seen readily available in ye olde magick shoppe are things like potions, wands or scrolls of cure light wounds and other low-level spells -- items that are at the bottom end of the scale, and which practically nobody actually minds being readily available. As far as I can tell, this issue is a gigantic crimson herring, of tarrasque-scale even.

If all else fails, the smart adventurers - the ones still alive at the end of the day - know that sometimes you just have to run;

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Even with magic items out the wazoo, there'll still be plenty of situations where you have to run. The inherent instabilities in the D&D model at high levels practically guarantees that.

 

[Geoff Watson]

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Even with magic items out the wazoo, there'll still be plenty of situations where you have to run. The inherent instabilities in the D&D model at high levels practically guarantees that.

At least with high-magic you'll be able to run. (Or teleport, or dimension door, planeshift, wahtever.)

What's to stop the flying invisible mage from pursuing the poor helpless no-magic fighters? It's not like they can outpace his fly spell.

Geoff.

 

[Numion]

A few points:

One reason I am seriously in favor of lower-magic games (hopefully you've read this entire thread to know in what context I have placed this concept) is the agonizingly lame "Magik-Item-Quickie-Stop," where "adventurers" may stroll on down to some Ye Olde Shoppe and just sort through magical trinkets at their leisure. In a setting where individuals with enough wealth to even benefit from such a place are such a tiny minority, how or why would businesses survive when that minority is so obviously their only clientele?

I find it much more unbelievable that someone wouldn't sell a magical trinket to wealthy adventurers. If there was a magic shoppe, a sale of single sword could net them a normal labourers 100 years worth of wages. So it's not like they would have keep a customer base similar to a wal-mart.

Anyway, I always thought that selling magic items would be a side-business for some wizards, who've come accross stuff they don't need, or they would prefer to have gold.

Additionally, all those items came from somewhere: spellcasters who created them in the first place. Judging by how it is supposedly so "easy" to gain said items, there must have been hordes of wizards, clerics, and others sitting around devoting lives to crafting items. Where did they all go? How did they all get so powerful (how could there me ANY monsters or threats left in the world?)? Did Elminster bring the concept of Mass Production to the fantasy worlds from his vacation spot in Detroit?

Magic items without charges last forever. So there does not need be a factory full of wizards making the stuff, but few individuals have created them over, say, a few millennia.

In Forgotten Realms the Red Wizards do manufacture them en masse, though. Mostly minor items and such.

 

[Tsyr]

I keep hearing semi-coherent ranting about ye olde magick shoppe all the time, and I've yet to see anything of the sort in three years of 3.xEd.

Yes, the books give detailed rules and guidelines for pricing items with all sorts of funky powers. No, this does not imply that such items are readily available for sale in a supermarket-like environment. It means that IF the characters want such an item, and IF they can find someone willing to make one, OR by some fortuitous occurrence someone has already made one, THEN the DM has a ready-made way of determining how much of their gold and/or other items will be used to pay for it. The rules are simply a way of avoiding tedious arguments about prices and economics and such, so that everyone can get back to the game. If you're one of the rare breed who likes tedious arguments about prices and economics, then of course you can always make stuff up.

The ONLY items that I've seen readily available in ye olde magick shoppe are things like potions, wands or scrolls of cure light wounds and other low-level spells -- items that are at the bottom end of the scale, and which practically nobody actually minds being readily available. As far as I can tell, this issue is a gigantic crimson herring, of tarrasque-scale even.

Actually, pretty much every DM 'round my neck of the woods ('cept me... Go me!) has the stupid "ye olde magick shoppe" stores in their games.

 

[hong]

Actually, pretty much every DM 'round my neck of the woods ('cept me... Go me!) has the stupid "ye olde magick shoppe" stores in their games.

Damn stupid DMs, eh?

 

[hong]

At least with high-magic you'll be able to run. (Or teleport, or dimension door, planeshift, wahtever.)

What's to stop the flying invisible mage from pursuing the poor helpless no-magic fighters? It's not like they can outpace his fly spell.

Geoff.

I think the three items I got the most value out of (well, except for the +5 resistance item) were the boots of air walk, the cloak of dimension door, and the amulet of fortunate fate. The first two let you run away, and the last is effectively a one/day extra-life item.

 

[diaglo]

Actually, pretty much every DM 'round my neck of the woods ('cept me... Go me!) has the stupid "ye olde magick shoppe" stores in their games.

i had a similar experience with the newer editions.

temple = ye olde divine magic shoppe

wizard tower = likewise for arcane

sewers = thieves guild/pawn broker to sell off unwanted items

even in the current group...this seems to be the case. (shot to Olgar's ribs)

but the worst abuse was ye olde credit card o' magic. one campaign the DM let us have a credit card and voucher recorded automatically whenever we went "shopping". anywhere in the world. all you had to do was run your card over a disc and it deducted or added credits. no encumberance in that campaign....

 

[Tsyr]

Except for finding treasure, ya know...

to be fair, the DMs in question have been playing the same way since 1E, so it's not a problem with 3E.