D&D 4E Does anyone else feel like 4ed isn't really a new edition?

[Baby Samurai]

Like a lot of people here, I feel it is a bigger change than 1st to 2nd edition, but not as big a change as 2nd edition to 3rd.

What with my group importing mass changes from Saga into our fortnightly Planescape campaign, I already feel like we're playing 3.75 or some such, so the transition to 4th will be pretty seamless – I can't wait.

 

[Driddle]

I wonder how often this will come up? http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=206113

 

[Maggan]

Ok, the only knowledge I have of 4e is what has been gleaned from EN World. And dreams projected from the fevered minds of WotC employees working day night in the mines. And funnily enough my neighbour's cat, who seems to have the scoop on 4e all wrapped up in a little ball of yarn.

That said, I think that 4e will feel like a new edition if you compare 3.xe and 4e Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual.

I think the line will be blurred if you compare 4e PH, DMG and MM and compare it to the entire output of 3.xe. For example, stuff from Bo9S will feel familiar enough that people who play with that option will feel the differences to be less accentuated, encounter formats might feel familiar to anyone who's run the Expedition to ... adventures and so on.

So depending on what of the options of 3e you picked up, 4e will be/feel to be either a smooth transition, or a big change.

How's that for a non-committal answer!

/M

 

[Klaus]

At times, it feels like they're making a whole new game, between all the fluff changes to the setting and, more importantly, the massive changes to spellcaster resource management.

Ditto.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

D&D, exciting and new.
Roll for initiative. They're expecting yooooooooooooooooou!
XP, life's sweetest reward.
Kick the door, collect the loooooot.

Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Soon will be selling core books.
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ... promises something for every group.
Draw a map for adventure,
Your mind on a new goblin lair.

NPCs won't hurt any more.
They're an open smile, in a friendly cave.
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! (Hey, yeah!)

Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Books without gnome bards.
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ... what's this warlord in our new group?
A formorian adventure,
Your mind on a new level cap.

AoOs don't hurt anymore.
They're a love tap on the battlemat!
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
It's new Four E! It's new Four E!

 

[Baby Samurai]

D&D, exciting and new.
Roll for initiative. They're expecting yooooooooooooooooou!
XP, life's sweetest reward.
Kick the door, collect the loooooot.

Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Soon will be selling core books.
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ... promises something for every group.
Draw a map for adventure,
Your mind on a new goblin lair.

NPCs won't hurt any more.
They're an open smile, in a friendly cave.
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! (Hey, yeah!)

Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Books without gnome bards.
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ... what's this warlord in our new group?
A formorian adventure,
Your mind on a new level cap.

AoOs don't hurt anymore.
They're a love tap on the battlemat!
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Four Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
It's new Four E! It's new Four E!

This is one of the most wonderful things ever – I am always walking around the house lounging it up singing the Love Boat tune, ala Bill Murray/Nick Rivers.

Star Waaaars…
Star Waaaars…
Remember all those strange creatures in that baaarrr…

 

[WayneLigon]

As the title says. I feel likes its more of another update. More like polished up some things and to added a bit. I don't feel as though they went and changed to a new edition.

Well, they have said that it's 'evolution, not revolution'.

From 2nd to 3rd, that was a new edition. They practicly scrapped everything, and began a new.

Not really, no. It was a much larger step than 3E-4E seems, but it was still pretty much the same game once you look at the very basics. So many specifics changed that it felt like a new game, but it really wasn't.

Now, if they had done something like change the attributes to STR, DEX, CON and MIND, got rid of classes entirely, went to a point-based build-your-own spell system and used only 3d6 or a single d20 resolution for all that... then it would have been a 'new game'.

 

[Celebrim]

I actually think people are majorly underestimating the scale of the change being described. I think that its probably larger than the change between 2nd and 3rd.

Consider what we know so far just as a sample:

Classes now advance up to 30th level by design.
Class advancement now more granular (smaller difference in power level between HD).
Vancian magic now largely gone.
Nine spell levels now gone. All spell lists will be substantially changed for the first time since 1st edition. For the first time since 1st edition, arcane spells can't be directly ported between editions.
First major new core class (warlord) since bard in 2nd edition.
All classes changing to a per/encounter resource management system.
Monsters are being completely revised.
The concept of race is completely changing.

Forget about the change between 2nd and 3rd, compare this to the change between 1st and 3rd!

Both editions assumed play under 20th level.
Both editions had Vancian magic, and almost identical spell lists.
Both editions had almost identical core class lists.
Both editions had resource management largely broken into per/day and per/round.
Monsters in both editions would have same number of hit dice, and largely identical design.
Default adventure design in both editions largely identical (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil designed like a 1st edition adventure)
Buzzword of 3rd edition - 'first edition feel'

Many seemingly big changes where actually small. For example, getting rid of THAC0 seems like a big thing until you realize that all that really has happened is some math shuffling to make things more intuitive. The skill system seems like a huge change, but its additive material rather than transformative. You could drop the skill system lock stock and smoking barrel into a 1st or 2nd edition game as an optional rule.

 

[Baby Samurai]

All classes changing to a per/encounter resource management system.

And per day and at will…

 

[Driddle]

And per day and at will…

I keep hearing about this "Will" guy and I have no idea who the heck he is.