Does anyone else hate the planes?

[Alhazred]

I don't use the planes all that often in my campaigns. I've retained the standard D&D cosmology, albeit with some alterations. There are the Heavens (the Good-aligned planes, Limbo and Mechanus), Sheol (the Evil-aligned planes, Pandemonium and Acheron), the Positive and Negative Planes (which exist beyond the outer planes, which derive their powers from the planes of energy) and the Transient Planes (Astral and Ethereal). I've pretty much eliminated the Elemental Planes (elementals are native to the Outlands, which ). The Plane of Faerie (or Faerieland) is coexistent with the Material Plane.

Like I said, I don't use them all that much - mainly as a place from whence fell creatures come The only plane-hopping is to Faerieland.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

The planes never bothered me one way or another but I never had much use for them in my own campaigns. I try to keep my campaigns simple enough in concept and focus more on either a story or a tangible mystery, etc. The planes are a little more conceptual in nature.

 

[shadow]

This thread has really gotten some replies. My initial post was a little "ranty" (as many posts are). As far as the planes being "complex", I was refering to a lot of the 1e and 2e material, especially the Planescape setting (which was often very surreal). The heavens and hells were pretty straightfoward, but I never quite got the idea of the elemental planes, the para-elemental planes, and the quasi-elemental planes. Nor did I ever quite get the idea of ethereal creatures and characters "existing simulataneously on the prime material plane and the ethereal plane."

However, all that aside, my biggest beef with the standard D&D cosmology , as many have already mentioned, is the fact that too many campaigns center around "plane-hopping". I always envisioned the planes as the home of the gods and demons, not just another location to slay monsters for this week's adventure. Going from plane to plane on adventures seems to be out of a bad sci-fi serial, rather than the legends and myths that I try to emulate for my campaigns. For that reason my home brew features just three planes: the material world, the heavens, and the hells. I'm not going to have players ever visit the heavens or hells, at least not until epic levels.

 

[Nightfall]

Well you could also have a plane of stars. There you can have the "souls" of ancestors and/or spirit beasts to answer questions, give out quests, possibly aid in the creation of a great weapon (ala Samurai Jack's dad and his sword.)

Just an idea there Shadow.

(and besides why SHOULDN'T there be an alternate "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall" world if only to make the PCs rethink that there's more out there than just "Heaven" and "hell". )

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

IMO the planes are too accessible and often, too bland.

What I don't like are the following:

Interaction between petitioners and living non-outsiders (with the exceptions of things like lantern archons). IMO living creatures have no business being on planes with such creatures - you really shouldn't be walking around Mount Celestia anyway. Some of the cooler planes shouldn't have petitioners on them - eg Limbo and Mechanus. (Both of these have established non-petitioner populations too which, IMO, are more interesting than the celestials and the fiends.)

Too many humanoid sentients on the weirder planes. What is a celestial gnome doing on Arcadia? (Or was it Mechanus?) Why are there living humans operating a monastery on Mechanus?

Planes simply being so accessible. Plane shift is part of the problem here, IMO. There's nobody on the other side waiting to kick you out.

 

[The Other Librarian]

As long as you can't reach it by walking there, the place could be Texas as easily as Gehenna.

True. There is much less difference between the two than you might imagine.

 

[fba827]

I am not a fan of planer stuff either. So they simply don't get used in my campaigns beyond reference for where stuff is summond from, etc. It really is just a matter of personal taste though... whatever floats your boat, right?

 

[Scribble]

I like the concept of planes in a game.

In my opiniuon the curent D&D cosmology gives you an easy to use readily defined plane system, but nothing says ou have to use that.

Originally Posted by Wombat
I never really liked the planes for the simple reason that I refuse to believe all the cultures on a given world look at cosmology in exactly the same manner. Instead, when I am forced to use the planes, I use them with a Belief Defines Reality filter -- you see more or less what you expect to believe, but different members of the same party may see different things (re: "Erik the Viking").

Maybe this is how it is? Maybe it's all really one place (the outer plane) but it changes based upon your views?

Or maybe if you want to take the standard cosmology, they all exist as printed, but some cultures simply don't know there are other planes of existence other then those they worship? To this group, it would be as if there are only two planes of existance. Were they to meet another culture that believes in yet a different plane, it could cause a lot of strife as the two cultures argue back and forth over the proper cosmology.

 

[Geoffrey]

In the campaign setting I'm working on, there are no planes at all. There is "only" the universe, infinite in both space and time. And as Clark Ashton Smith said, "In an infinite, eternal universe, there is nothing imaginable—or unimaginable—which might not happen, might not he true, somewhere or sometime." Given that, I don't see how other planes can be anything other than superfluous.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Generally, I like the planes, but only in the way of how fun it is to fashion new cosmologies.

What gets me all bothered about planes, for one, is the Great Wheel arrangement. Over-used, and remarkably uncreative and limiting in its application, IMO. I much prefer the cosmology of BXCMI D&D's Known World. Especially the Immortals boxed set. I have imported it into other TSR/WotC campaign settings, especially Dark Sun. With a little tweeking, I have also used it in Spelljammer campaigns. It is more versatile for general campaign use than the Great Wheel is.

I really like how elemental energy works in the BXCMI D&D cosmology. I like the 3rd/4th/5th dimensionalism it works with.


Regards,
Eric Anondson