I would like to creat a magic tattoo something like the ones published in the AV2, and have an idea of how it might work (bonuses granted and action type etc), my problem comes from deciding what level item it would be concidered and therby it's cost. I have lloked through the books I have for some rules on designing new items and new enchantments, but have been unable to. Does anyone have any guidelines or rules for designing new magic items and enchantments in the 4E game system.
Does anyone have Guidelines or Rules for Designing New Magic Items/ Enchantments
- Thread starter MonkLover
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keterys
First Post
Well, you have two options:
1) Design the item, choosing how it works based on flavor and game effect that you want it to have. Once complete, compare to other magic items and choose its level based on the other items in comparison. As a general rule, make it worse than at least 1 or 2 items of its level and better than 1 or 2 items of its level. You may need to adjust the power after the fact to fit it within a level range that works for your party.
2) Choose a level for the item. Comparing to other items of its level, choose abilities that would land it in that level, ensuring that there are always items both better and worse than it at its level if possible. If you get a really cool idea for a power, you may need to adjust the level after the fact.
1) Design the item, choosing how it works based on flavor and game effect that you want it to have. Once complete, compare to other magic items and choose its level based on the other items in comparison. As a general rule, make it worse than at least 1 or 2 items of its level and better than 1 or 2 items of its level. You may need to adjust the power after the fact to fit it within a level range that works for your party.
2) Choose a level for the item. Comparing to other items of its level, choose abilities that would land it in that level, ensuring that there are always items both better and worse than it at its level if possible. If you get a really cool idea for a power, you may need to adjust the level after the fact.
CapnZapp
Legend
Well, there aren't any guidelines for general item construction, and the game really doesn't encourage that. If there were any, and if they were officially endorsed, it would really only open the floodgates for players who would persuade their DMs to let them use those guidelines themselves.
And that would be a set of rules that would either be utterly broken or utterly pointless. Much better to leave it up to experienced DMs to test the waters themselves, unofficially.
I see two overall cases:
You want to create a new item from scratch.
Here really the only good advice is to look at similar items, and guestimate an item level from there. Keterys advice is sound: when in doubt, add a level or three. (One level here and there really doesn't have much of an impact in 4E, especially when any enhancement bonuses don't change)
The only thing to add is: are you sure you're not reinventing the wheel? Chances are, your item already exist somewhere...
You want to up the power of an existing item that you feel is "weak".
This is a much more common scenario for me. I'm generally not creating new items from scratch - there really are so many items out there I don't think I have to start from nothing.
Instead, I'm turning the complaints "many items feel underpowered and weak" to an advantage. If two items with ability A and B respectively will be dismissed as weak, then perhaps combining them into a single item (with A+B) will become an interesting and useful item, without being overpowered?
So my suggestion is to focus not on the creation of new stuff (properties, powers) but on combining existing stuff. Basically, getting more mileage out of the multitudes of average to weak items that WotC have spewed this last year.
There's no guidelines for this either. I can only give the most basic of advice:
a) stay off the CharOp darlings. These definitely don't need any improvements.
b) Pick from the bottom drawer. If you aren't sure an item is too weak on its own, it probably isn't a good candidate for "combination surgery". Generally, properties that are always active are better than once-a-day powers.
c) go for themes. It's easy to not see the overall picture and end up with items that combine powers that have no unifying theme.
d) Don't be afraid to disappoint. Much better to introduce a few items that still are ignored as "useless" than to accidentally add a broken powercreep item. You can always add more items later.
e) try to not add in more than one extra power or property. Unless you're designing a minor artefact*.
*) Technically all these items should be considered artefacts, in that the players can't create or reproduce them. The only ones they get are the ones they find or buy. But I still want to distinguish between "items with two powers" (which are semi-vanilla) and "remarkable items with several powers" - the latter are the true artefacts.
And that would be a set of rules that would either be utterly broken or utterly pointless. Much better to leave it up to experienced DMs to test the waters themselves, unofficially.
I see two overall cases:
You want to create a new item from scratch.
Here really the only good advice is to look at similar items, and guestimate an item level from there. Keterys advice is sound: when in doubt, add a level or three. (One level here and there really doesn't have much of an impact in 4E, especially when any enhancement bonuses don't change)
The only thing to add is: are you sure you're not reinventing the wheel? Chances are, your item already exist somewhere...
You want to up the power of an existing item that you feel is "weak".
This is a much more common scenario for me. I'm generally not creating new items from scratch - there really are so many items out there I don't think I have to start from nothing.
Instead, I'm turning the complaints "many items feel underpowered and weak" to an advantage. If two items with ability A and B respectively will be dismissed as weak, then perhaps combining them into a single item (with A+B) will become an interesting and useful item, without being overpowered?
So my suggestion is to focus not on the creation of new stuff (properties, powers) but on combining existing stuff. Basically, getting more mileage out of the multitudes of average to weak items that WotC have spewed this last year.
There's no guidelines for this either. I can only give the most basic of advice:
a) stay off the CharOp darlings. These definitely don't need any improvements.
b) Pick from the bottom drawer. If you aren't sure an item is too weak on its own, it probably isn't a good candidate for "combination surgery". Generally, properties that are always active are better than once-a-day powers.
c) go for themes. It's easy to not see the overall picture and end up with items that combine powers that have no unifying theme.
d) Don't be afraid to disappoint. Much better to introduce a few items that still are ignored as "useless" than to accidentally add a broken powercreep item. You can always add more items later.
e) try to not add in more than one extra power or property. Unless you're designing a minor artefact*.
*) Technically all these items should be considered artefacts, in that the players can't create or reproduce them. The only ones they get are the ones they find or buy. But I still want to distinguish between "items with two powers" (which are semi-vanilla) and "remarkable items with several powers" - the latter are the true artefacts.
Eric Finley
First Post
My other advice is to key it to the PC it's planned for. Find ways to make its abilities both (a) resemble those of other items of its type - in the case of tattoos, either "when you spend an action point, X happens" or "static bonus Y depends on the number of surges you have spent today" - and (b) both interest, and challenge, the player it's given to.
For instance, the rogue in my game has a really strong paranoid streak. Unless it really cuts into optimal play, he'll always choose the safe tactic or safe option. So when I was tossing him his second +1 Dagger (the first having been a Parrying Dagger with a defensive bias), I altered the Critical line. Instead of +1d6 for a normal Magic Dagger +1, his reads "Critical: You may roll a death save. If you do so, whether or not it succeeds, add +2d8 damage."
I wouldn't give this item to just any character; if they didn't object to death saves so much, it'd be just an intellectual tradeoff. But for Crumpleface Jack, it's a dare. It's an RP hook masquerading as a Critical property. (I've even gone more explicitly RP than this. Our cleric, who is technically a slave and still sort of considers himself one, has a slave collar as his holy symbol, whose Crit listing is "+1d10 damage and you feel worthless for being without a master.")
So give them things which will make the specific PCs you're aiming them at have to make nontrivial choices, and choices which make them get further into character. At that point, precise setting of levels and precise power of items becomes less important, simply because that's no longer the whole focus.
If you want a hand, post a quick background/build summary of the PC you're planning it for, and maybe we can come up with some suggestions.
For instance, the rogue in my game has a really strong paranoid streak. Unless it really cuts into optimal play, he'll always choose the safe tactic or safe option. So when I was tossing him his second +1 Dagger (the first having been a Parrying Dagger with a defensive bias), I altered the Critical line. Instead of +1d6 for a normal Magic Dagger +1, his reads "Critical: You may roll a death save. If you do so, whether or not it succeeds, add +2d8 damage."
I wouldn't give this item to just any character; if they didn't object to death saves so much, it'd be just an intellectual tradeoff. But for Crumpleface Jack, it's a dare. It's an RP hook masquerading as a Critical property. (I've even gone more explicitly RP than this. Our cleric, who is technically a slave and still sort of considers himself one, has a slave collar as his holy symbol, whose Crit listing is "+1d10 damage and you feel worthless for being without a master.")
So give them things which will make the specific PCs you're aiming them at have to make nontrivial choices, and choices which make them get further into character. At that point, precise setting of levels and precise power of items becomes less important, simply because that's no longer the whole focus.
If you want a hand, post a quick background/build summary of the PC you're planning it for, and maybe we can come up with some suggestions.
keterys
First Post
One thing of note - price jumps by x5 every 5 levels, but it's almost doubling at the cusps. So 5th->6th is a big jump, and items that are 1st-5th should be quite a bit worse than items that are 6th-10th. Or, to put it another way... bumping an item from 2nd (520g) to 5th (1000g), 3 levels, near doubling in cost is pretty similar to bumping an item from 5th (1000g) to 6th (1800g) in terms of cost, despite only a 1 level jump instead of 3.
If you're just _giving_ an item to a player that you don't expect they'll ever want multiple of, go ahead and make it as low level as you want. Since at that point you're just considering what it sells for instead of what they can make it for, so you're less worried about everyone eventually making or buying one.
If you're just _giving_ an item to a player that you don't expect they'll ever want multiple of, go ahead and make it as low level as you want. Since at that point you're just considering what it sells for instead of what they can make it for, so you're less worried about everyone eventually making or buying one.
Eric Finley
First Post
That latter depends somewhat on how you're handling things, though. I put together a spreadsheet that tells me how much gp (or rather IXP in my game) each PC has in items, total. These numbers are available to each DM as we rotate DMs. This is a really handy tool when you're casting about for inspiration on who needs new treasure the most... look at the folks who have the least current total.
[Mine actually goes one step further, and distributes the total gp (IXP) from an adventure evenly among the players, and you "buy" items out of that pool. So if you're the one who gets the level+4 item one go-round, it'll drop you from a healthy positive "bank balance" to a negative one - meaning, don't give this PC any more loot for a while. The neat thing about this is that the DM no longer has to sweat the item distribution guidelines exactly, and yet he still gets fair (to within the margin of accuracy of the assessed levels and gp prices) results. So, "I just really thought this other Level 7 item was cool, so I wanted to include it, what does that do to our balance?" becomes a completely moot point.]
But, yes - if you're just handing it out to someone specific then, unless you're going as overboard about fairness as I am, its level is fairly irrelevant.
[Mine actually goes one step further, and distributes the total gp (IXP) from an adventure evenly among the players, and you "buy" items out of that pool. So if you're the one who gets the level+4 item one go-round, it'll drop you from a healthy positive "bank balance" to a negative one - meaning, don't give this PC any more loot for a while. The neat thing about this is that the DM no longer has to sweat the item distribution guidelines exactly, and yet he still gets fair (to within the margin of accuracy of the assessed levels and gp prices) results. So, "I just really thought this other Level 7 item was cool, so I wanted to include it, what does that do to our balance?" becomes a completely moot point.]
But, yes - if you're just handing it out to someone specific then, unless you're going as overboard about fairness as I am, its level is fairly irrelevant.
Eric Finley
First Post
Doublepost deleted.
Last edited:
Eric Finley
First Post
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