Does being Mounted affect Improved Grab?

[Wolfwood2]

I can't find anything on how or if grappling interacts with mounted combat. I suppose the first question is, does being mounted affect grappling at all?

If a medium-size creature with Improved Grab successfully attacks a medium size rider on a Large mount, then can it use its Improved Grab ability and automatically pull the rider from saddle, or does the rider get any kind of Ride check to avoid being pulled from his saddle? Does the mounted creature receive any kind of bonus to his grapple check?

Does the answer change if a creature initiates a grapple as normal rather than with Improved Grab? In that case, the attacking creature has to enter the mount's square as well as the rider's square.

 

[Vegepygmy]

As far as I know, the rules are silent on these issues.

Personally, I can see no reason why being mounted would help one resist an Improved Grab. As for a normal grapple, I would say yes, the attacking creature enters the defender's space (which is considered to be the same space as that occupied by his mount).

 

[Jhulae]

I can't find anything on how or if grappling interacts with mounted combat. I suppose the first question is, does being mounted affect grappling at all?

If a medium-size creature with Improved Grab successfully attacks a medium size rider on a Large mount, then can it use its Improved Grab ability and automatically pull the rider from saddle, or does the rider get any kind of Ride check to avoid being pulled from his saddle? Does the mounted creature receive any kind of bonus to his grapple check?

Does the answer change if a creature initiates a grapple as normal rather than with Improved Grab? In that case, the attacking creature has to enter the mount's square as well as the rider's square.

First, most of the time, whatever's using Improved Grab would have to be Large sized versus a medium opponent.

Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature.

Also, Improved Grab only lets whatever possesses it to automatically *initiate* a grapple, not automatically *win* a grapple. So, even if a character is hit by something with improved grab, the character still gets to make a grapple check. There's just no initial 'touch attack' or AoO.

Lastly, the way to get a rider off of a mount actually isn't via Grapple. Dismounting a rider is actually a Trip.

 

[Elemmakil]

I can't find anything on how or if grappling interacts with mounted combat. I suppose the first question is, does being mounted affect grappling at all?

If a medium-size creature with Improved Grab successfully attacks a medium size rider on a Large mount, then can it use its Improved Grab ability and automatically pull the rider from saddle, or does the rider get any kind of Ride check to avoid being pulled from his saddle? Does the mounted creature receive any kind of bonus to his grapple check?

Does the answer change if a creature initiates a grapple as normal rather than with Improved Grab? In that case, the attacking creature has to enter the mount's square as well as the rider's square.

Actually, as written I believe that you cannot use improved grab on a mounted opponent. To initiate a grapple, you have to move into your opponent's space, which is also the mount's space. However, you only gain the ability to move into the opponent's, not their mount's, space. Therefore, you cannot grapple.

I am assuming that the grappler cannot move into the mount's square. That is occasionally a bad assumption.

In case you want to get really cheesy:

Grappling requires four steps, although Improved Grab bypasses steps one and two.

In the third step, you make a grapple check and deal extra damage if you succeed. In the fourth step, you move into your opponent's square. The important part is that you deal extra damage even if you can't move into their square! Therefore the creature with improved grab effectively doubles its damage per round (plus constrict, if applicable), but doesn't actually grapple.

The grappler can set this up by being mounted himself. He moves with his mount, but it gains no ability to move into their opponent's square, unless it is large enough.

If you actually try this, someone you game with may try to shoot you in the head, with a hammer. Be warned.

-Elemmakil

 

[Wolfwood2]

First, most of the time, whatever's using Improved Grab would have to be Large sized versus a medium opponent.

A special exception is made for Mind Flayers, that being my immediate concern. They can face suck any Small, Medium, or Large creature



However, I'd also like to know for your typical Large or Huge monster with Improved Grab.

Also, Improved Grab only lets whatever possesses it to automatically *initiate* a grapple, not automatically *win* a grapple. So, even if a character is hit by something with improved grab, the character still gets to make a grapple check. There's just no initial 'touch attack' or AoO.

Yes, I understand that. However let's face it, anything with Improved Grab usually has the grapple modifier to get the job done barring very lucky rolls for the defender.

Lastly, the way to get a rider off of a mount actually isn't via Grapple. Dismounting a rider is actually a Trip.

That is true and something I had been aware of. In fact, that's part of why I questioned Improved Grab in the first place. A creature with Improved Grab pulls its victim into its own square (unlike a normal grapple check). Since only the rider is moved and not the mount, the creature with Imrproved Grab must effectively be pulling the rider from his saddle.

I can certainly visualize how that would work, but I just wanted to make sure there's no way to use a Ride check to aid or defend in resisting.

 

[frankthedm]

I can certainly visualize how that would work, but I just wanted to make sure there's no way to use a Ride check to aid or defend in resisting.

I think it would be reasonable to allow somone to use thier Ride bonus in place of thier grapple bonus in this situation and allow the Military saddle to thow its bonus in the mix.

 

[Elethiomel]

Actually, as written I believe that you cannot use improved grab on a mounted opponent. To initiate a grapple, you have to move into your opponent's space, which is also the mount's space. However, you only gain the ability to move into the opponent's, not their mount's, space. Therefore, you cannot grapple.

Improved Grab specifically overrides this. Improved Grab lets you move opponents into your space rather than having to move into the opponent's space when you initiate a grapple.

 

[mvincent]

I can't find anything on how or if grappling interacts with mounted combat.

From the Rules of the Game (if desired):
"If the foe that is grappling you isn't aboard your mount, your mount cannot move away unless you fall off or escape the grapple first. The time you take escaping the grapple limits your mount to a single move. You can instead try to move your opponent. To do so, you must first win an opposed grapple check. If you succeed, your mount can make a single move, dragging your and your foe along (subject to its carrying capacity)."