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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cergorach" data-source="post: 9227719" data-attributes="member: 725">I was actually wondering something in a similar vain, when does an RPG need a new edition and when is it a mechanism to sell you the same thing over and over again.A bit of context: I've been playing RPGs since ~1987, started with the Dutch version of The Dark Eye (Oog des Meesters), moved to the Dutch version of the basic Red Box of D&D and then to the English version of D&D (because the Dutch version didn't publish the Blue Box in Dutch (neither did they release much in Dutch for the Dark Eye at the time). Then AD&D 2E close to the start of that edition, played that almost for 10 years as a player and DM, it was rife with issues and we started playing 'Eric Noah's 3rd Edition' before WotC even released the PHB 3.0, we found it far better then 2E, more intuitive. 3.5 showed up and we bought into that. 3.0/3.5 had it's own set of issues that were very obvious with high level play. 4E showed up, I bought it all, found it technically better then 3.5E, but was lacking something and we never played it. 5E showed up, felt like 3E and we bought in again, I just the PHB this time and only recently bought the PHB/DMG/MM giftset for myself. Played many other games in the years in between, from Shadowrun, to Vampire, Mage, etc.I have very little knowledge of AD&D1E, so I can't really say much about that transition, but the differences between Basic D&D and AD&D2E were drastic, it felt a bit like moving from Heroquest to Basic D&D, more options, more everything. But after 10 years of AD&D2E we had had our fill of it and 3E felt like a welcome change. Not only were the rules an upgrade, most of the 3E books themselves were also a big upgrade, glossy, full color, often hardcover. In the beginning of 3.0 many of the 'side' books and adventures were still in B&W, but that also changed a lot with 3.5E. After just 8 years of 3E we got 4E, almost unrecognizable from any previous edition imho, it forced everyone to buy the books again, but it just didn't sell that well. Pathfinder was born and WotC went back to it's D&D success with 5E just 6 years later. We're now almost 10 years into the 5E era and honestly, I have no desire for another edition and I expect, neither does my group.That said: There are some very significant differences.#1 We are older, a lot older and also in a very different period in our lives. Back when we were all excited for 3E I was 22, now I'm 27. Our gaming group was still living in the same area, so playing wasn't as hard as it is now when we've all scattered, some having families and general life outside of gaming. So We played a LOT more 2E and 3E then we've played 5E. Maybe that means that we've just not been exposed thouroghly enough to 5E to want change...#2 Distribution and quality were different back in the day. Especially OOP 2E products were getting very expensive pre 3E, Back then a $250 Maztica boxed set was considered ludicrous. I had gotten most of the 2E stuff already at more reasonable prices, but not everyone was as lucky. The Internet existed, but far, far from as accessible and user friendly as it is now. There was a decent pirate scene for OOP RPGs, but that wasn't always that great on you massive CRT screen and saf PC. No iPads yet and Android didn't exist yet, we had PDAs with tiny screens but they were horrible with PDFs. We even got official OCRed 2E versions in PDF somewhere before 3E released, for a reasonable fee ($3/product). That disappeared again with the 3E release. When I look at the 3E era of book quality, on average that improved drastically. My PHB3E had better production values then my PHB2E, although my PHB2E had a greater nostalgic value. But when you're already at 300+ full color, glossy pages hardcover, you can't upgrade much. At this point PHB4E/5E are not leaps and bounds, they are at best, slight improvements in art/layout.#3 The way we play. Getting together might still be the preffered way to play, but compared to 20 years ago, playing online has never been easier, or more neccessary (when looking at the pandemic period). Now, don't get me wrong, we had tools for D&D, even 20 years ago on computers. But I've been playing recently with Foundry VTT and the difference and relative ease of use is just staggering, not that strange when that's been evolving for those two decades (and almost everything in computer land moves quickly).Now, I'm left wondering is it my age and place in life that has me left not wanting/needing a new edition? Or is it something else? Has D&D evolved to a far more 'mature' state with 5E? Previous editions had similar fans that rather stayed with the old edition, but in the past those were very small niche groups, but OSR (like) games/products have over the years become way more prevailant/mainstream.Why does it feel like (another) cash grab? 4E eventually felt like an absolute cash grab with the same book names showing up for a different game, especially the setting shennanigans books felt like "Now all the previous books you own for this setting are obsolete!". 5E, while desirable way more then 4E, was another cash grab, mostly of getting the cash back into the WotC pockets instead of going into the Paizo pockets due to Pathfinder.Why would I find a new edition a problem when 5E is still providing entertainment and very few issues? Maybe I don't really have an issue per se, but I'm seeing some issues on the road. While I don't really buy much WotC product or services anymore, I do rely on third parties for some products and services. Specifically for VTTs (Foundry in my case) and while my VTT of choice is very open, I do see a tendency of people and developers to move to the latest and greatest. This might give me issues down the road with compatibilty of VTT modules. Other 3rd parties only concentrate on the latest version of a poplular RPG (being the D&D5E or PF2E), loosing that product pool is more painful.Both D&D5E and PF2E are moving to that weird 'next' version of their RPG without really calling it a new edition, but enough changes are there to make it 'problematic' enough for VTTs, especially when trying to support edition specific rules/subsystem. I'm wondering if this is going to have issues when VTTs move to the 'next' version of the RPG and how that is going to impact 'old' content. Don't get me wrong, there are a TON of old versions and RPGs on Foundry VTT, but those are often very limited and rely on the benevolance of it's developer (who often does this for free) to be maintained and often doesn't work with many other modules (because those developers don't want to support 100s of RPGs)... Sure, you could build something yourself (and I'm looking into that), but when that moves from doing it for fun, to something "This needs to work or it'll ruin the next gamingsession!" it sounds more like work... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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