D&D General Does D&D (and RPGs in general) Need Edition Resets?

Remathilis

Legend
So I've been ruminating on something...

D&D has had (depending on how you define them) five to seven different editions that are effectively different games. This count doesn't even begin to consider print runs, half-editions, or repackages. And yes, some editions of D&D are compatible with others (or more compatible than with others) but effectively speaking, the rules change every decade or so in such a way that the previous version is rendered obsolete. Because of this, a large selection of a RPG's run life is selling updated versions of the same material. Updated versions of settings, updated versions of supplemental rules (psionics for example). Fluff may or may not be cross edition, but rules almost never are. The psionics handbook I bought in the 90's is useless in 2023 unless I'm running 2nd edition AD&D as well. RPGs effectively reset themselves every so many years and rarely have the rules been compatible enough that material from one version carries over to the next.

Compare that to a game like Magic: the Gathering where the rules have evolved greatly since its inception but every card in the game is still playable (barring some exceptions) and you can play a deck using only 1994 cards against a deck made of only 2023 cards and the game accommodate both. (Balance issues notwithstanding). New sets are effectively additive*, whereas new editions of D&D are replacing older ones. (* Magic, of course, has formats that range from rotating [old cards leave, new cards enter] and eternal [all cards within a threshold are playable]. YMMV depending on your format. Playing standard requires constant replacement, while playing Commander is purely additive)

My question is if that is in-fact a good thing? Does D&D need a clean slate ever-so-often to reset the board and introduce new ideas and build things from the ground up, or would it be better if there was a way to keep the rules from older editions usable so that every few years, we aren't repeating the Manual of the Planes or the Psionics Handbook or Big Book of Scary Dragons again? On the one hand, it does make large swaths of our collections outdated and balkanizes the player base into people who only play X edition, but on the other, keeping D&D compatible with older editions would require a lot of innovations made over the years to be lost or reduced to keep it compatible. (AC scaling being an example). If D&D was compatible across editions though, we wouldn't necessarily be waiting for the new edition to do a Planescape update book, we'd be looking at yet another expansion into the Planescape line that covers something we hadn't seen (or summarizes elements from different places).

Is there a way D&D could have been made additive rather than replacing itself every edition? I guess that's what 2024 is opting for. Or is RPGs one of those things that benefit from a good reset ever so often?
 

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Parmandur

Book-Friend
No. Call of Cthulu has had new editions and refreshes, but for 40 years has remained completely compatible. The D&D approach to Editions was only ever a shady money making scheme from TSR thst WotC early on thought sounded great. But it turns out to be more damaging to profits than helpful. I heard Mearls ipine that if Moldvsy Basic had ascending AC and Race and Class in one box for both Basic and Expert....that TSR could have basically sold it as is forever.

So, now that WotC has learned their lesson, I doubt we shall ever see a "New Edition" with capital N and capital E again. Periodic cleanups and art refreshes, changing things here and there to fit the zeitgisst...but no rules changeover.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
If you want to make money yes. You can play any edition indefinitely.

Some editions the pattern us different but generally sales decline after a while. You hit saturation point. Sales dry up. Some editions are frontloaded others build up to it but eventually they all peak.

Book scan shows new 5E materials sales are down.

TSR peaked 83 then declined until 2E launch year. Which declined until 3.0 launch year.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
Is there a way D&D could have been made additive rather than replacing itself every edition? I guess that's what 2024 is opting for. Or is RPGs one of those things that benefit from a good reset ever so often?

I have LONG LONG AGO wished for D&D's next "edition" to simply improve on the parts of the game that are widely seen as broken or half-baked, without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

2024 will be an attempt to do this. We'll have to see how/if they succeed.

One could argue that 2e was an attempt to do it with 1e, and that 3.5 was an attempt to do it with 3e, AND that Essentials was an attempt to do it with 4e.

All of those had some successes and some failures, but they also had other problems. 3.5 was TOO EARLY for the designers to understand all the problems that edition had, so it didn't really address most of 3e's problems, and it fixed a few things that it didn't need to. Essentials (IMO) did a number of things "right" to fix some of the problems of 4e, but had confusing marketing behind it, was stuck with a chassis that didn't appeal to a lot of D&D fans, and was too late to "save" 4e.

One of the things that D&D has always needed with any given edition is an attempt to reorganize how the information is presented (without doing too much to the information itself). The 2e "Black Books" did this very well, but they ALSO were "too late" to save the edition, and came alongside an experimental "Skills & Powers" book, which, IMO, put the final nail in the coffin of that edition, even if the PHB, DMG, and MM were all much better than their predecessors.

This is something that will hopefully be a feature of the 2024 Books. I know that they INTEND to do a much better job of Presentation (in particular with the DMG). We'll see if they succeed.

But ALL of those attempts were never followed up with a SECOND round of iterating the rules without overhauling them. The REAL test to the approach, I think, will be (if the 2024 books succeed), the NEXT round of iteration-without-overhaul. Say, if 2034 gives us a "60th Anniversary D&D" that still uses the basic 5e framework, but gives us another update of improving things that aren't great, and toning down things that are broken, while mixing in new tastes and desires.

So to answer your question: No, I don't think that D&D needs new "Editions" (like we usually mean the term), but it does need semi-regular careful updating.
 
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FitzTheRuke

Legend
Book scan shows new 5E materials sales are down.
5e sales are down for TWO reasons (with many lesser reasons, naturally): 1) Sales on almost EVERYTHING is down (certainly everything anywhere close to the entertainment category). Pandemic boom times are over, and basic necessities are vastly more expensive than they used to be. AND 2) Everyone has always "shied away" from buying what is seen as an "old edition" when a "new edition" has been announced and is on the horizon. Don't get me wrong, I'm still selling PHBs and other books to New D&D Players who don't know anything about that sort of thing - but the "whales" are waiting. And that adds up.
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend
So to answer your question: No, I don't think that D&D needs new "Editions" (like we usually mean the term), but it does need semi-regular careful updating.
And I think Call of Cthulu is a good case study that thisnis feasible: after 40 years, it is still very popular, seemingly the most popular non-d20 derived game on the market from what I have seen. And given the prominence of H. P. Lovecraft int he DNA of the default setting...careful updating has been extremely necessary.
 

I think of it this way, the first 4-5 editions of D&D were the development of a new complex way of gaming. Significant changes, that would not work in an incremental way just would not have been sufficient. 4E was a change in gaming paradigm that didn't work. Hopefully 5E is mature enough that it can just have minor changes for many decades to come. Of course, it may not have a sustainable business model.

As for Magic, sure a deck from 1998 can still be used against a 2023 deck, but they are not competitive. Do you really want D&D to be like MTG or YugiO where every few months you have to drop $125+ for a new deck so you can get benefits of the newest rule change? That model doesn't work well with campaigns and characters that last many years. And it would drive me away faster than almost any other rule change they could make.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
5e sales are down for TWO reasons (with many lesser reasons, naturally): 1) Sales on almost EVERYTHING is down (certainly everything anywhere close to the entertainment category). Pandemic boom times are over, and basic necessities are vastly more expensive than they used to be. AND 2) Everyone has always "shied away" from buying what is seen as an "old edition" when a "new edition" has been announced and is one the horizon. Don't get me wrong, I'm still selling PHBs and other books to New D&D Players who don't know anything about that sort of thing - but the "whales" are waiting. And that adds up.

The why doesn't really matter why eventually sales go down.

I hit saturation point a year or two before I stopped buying but the decline in quality was noticed.

Something similar in 3.5 with books didn't buy and the ones I did being inferior to earlier ones eg Complete Psion/Mage vs Arcane/Divine.
 



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