Does diplomacy affect charisma rolls for npcs?

[Stalker0]

I've always thought that diplomacy was different from the charisma check you use to determine npc attitudes, but someone told me that that was actually a diplomacy check. Which is right?

 

[CRGreathouse]

The DMG says it's a Charisma check.
The PH and ELH say it's a Diplomacy check.

 

[FANGO]

If it were indeed a charisma check, you'd have to have a charisma score of about 90 or so in order to be able to reliably change someone's attitude from hostile to helpful. For reference, that is approximately twice the charisma score of the various goddesses of love that are covered in deities and demigods and faiths and pantheons (sune and aphrodite have charisma scores in the low 40s, i believe). So this, along with the rules in the phb and elh, I think suggest that it is diplomacy rather than charisma. (of course, not that this has ever caused my DM to change the reactions of his NPCs...here I am with a +30 diplomacy and somehow I manage to make people MORE hostile every time I use the damn thing)

 

[hong]

I assume that Diplomacy is one of those "always on" skills. It makes sense that if you're trying to influence someone, you'd use the skill that has to do with influencing people.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

The DMG says it's a Charisma check.
The PH and ELH say it's a Diplomacy check.

More specifically, the PH says that a Charisma check to influence an NPC is an untrained Diplomacy check. Unless you're going to claim that there's an "untrained skill check" out there that can't also use the modifier for the character's ranks, which seems a trifle absurd, the Charisma check mentioned in the DMG is one and the same thing as a Diplomacy check.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

With respect to Dr. Rictus, I would like to rephrase his excellent point: If you are explicitly allowed to use a skill untrained to perform a specific task, it implies that you may use a trained skill for that task.

Mentioning "untrained Diplomacy" is an absurdity if what you mean is "d20 + Cha only". It is like saying you can use an untrained Jump check to break a rope.

 

[Someguy]

What if you were jumping on the rope to break it?
And it was suspended between buildings?

and you somehow didn't fall....

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

What if you were jumping on the rope to break it?
And it was suspended between buildings?

and you somehow didn't fall....

Isn't there a kitten who swallowed an earring somewhere that needs your help?

 

[CRGreathouse]

More specifically, the PH says that a Charisma check to influence an NPC is an untrained Diplomacy check. Unless you're going to claim that there's an "untrained skill check" out there that can't also use the modifier for the character's ranks, which seems a trifle absurd, the Charisma check mentioned in the DMG is one and the same thing as a Diplomacy check.

I'm sorry, I take it back. I wonder how I came up with that in the first place... was it different in the first printing? Was I going off the playtest docs? Am I just crazy?

To anyone who was confused by what I said: I'm sorry, it was my fault.