Does Enworld have a major impact in the D20 market?
- Thread starter broghammerj
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IronWolf
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As to whether the impact is felt on the market as a whole I cannot say. I just don't know enough of the numbers that would be needed to be known to even have an educated guess on such a question.
However, I can say that EN World has an impact on my buying purchases. Most of my purchases these days are made after I hear a little bit about the book around here. Now some books I will buy no matter what the opinion is here (Waterdeep is an example). Others I learned more about here and then decided to purchase the book. The only way I can keep up with all the PDFs on the market is to see which ones get a lot of attention around here. Because of this I have picked up several PDFs.
However, I can say that EN World has an impact on my buying purchases. Most of my purchases these days are made after I hear a little bit about the book around here. Now some books I will buy no matter what the opinion is here (Waterdeep is an example). Others I learned more about here and then decided to purchase the book. The only way I can keep up with all the PDFs on the market is to see which ones get a lot of attention around here. Because of this I have picked up several PDFs.
Orcus
First Post
I agree with Mike.
For sales it depends on the type of publisher. PDF publishers, ENWorld is the major place to promote sales it seems. Smaller publishers (and I am using that term relatively, since we are all pretty small compared to WotC
), they can generate some interest on a book here which could have a pretty good impact on total sales. Larger publishers (GR, Atlas, etc) can help sales here but larger print runs that go through the book trade have so many purchasers that arent on the net that the impact of buzz (good or bad) from ENWorld is much smaller on overall sales.
But Mike nails it when he says sales or not, ENWorld is THE place where all the publishers come for d20. I'll admit, things are more diluted now then they used to be. To me it was always huge to have the latest Necro product getting lead play on the EW front page. But there is so much stuff going on here these days that the impact of that lead bit has been lessened.
Nevertheless, you will always see me here for two reasons:
1. It is the best d20 community. Period.
2. It is where I got Necro started.
As for good and bad press and boycotts and things like that, my guess is they are pretty overrated. In general, people either want the book or they dont. The number of people who will not buy a book that they are otherwise drooling for because of a boycott seems slim to me. And since my goal is to make books you are drooling over (as oposed to just cranking out titles to make $$$, and no this is not a jab at anyone or any company or anything, just a statement that our company goal is to make kick a$$ books that you WANT to have), I dont concern myself with the occasional bad issue or person I piss off (which happens, but hopefully I am forgiven) or whatever. And I dont think it really reflects that significantly in sales. Though for a "smaller" publisher (see above) or a PDF product, it could be detrimental. Just like positive buzz could be great.
I will also say this, I have seen some bad press that I thought wasnt warranted and some bad reviews of products I thought were great. And, similarly, I have seen some lame products praised up and down that I wouldnt have purchased if you gave me the money. So I think, though gamers like to vent and give opinions which is very cool, that gamers are independent thinkers as a general principle and will make up their own mind despite good or bad press.
But if you want, I would be happy to volunteer to do a test: everyone go out and buy City State of the Invincible Overlord. Its early release spike has passed so if I see a spike from this thread then we will know that ENWorld generates sales.
Clark
For sales it depends on the type of publisher. PDF publishers, ENWorld is the major place to promote sales it seems. Smaller publishers (and I am using that term relatively, since we are all pretty small compared to WotC
), they can generate some interest on a book here which could have a pretty good impact on total sales. Larger publishers (GR, Atlas, etc) can help sales here but larger print runs that go through the book trade have so many purchasers that arent on the net that the impact of buzz (good or bad) from ENWorld is much smaller on overall sales.But Mike nails it when he says sales or not, ENWorld is THE place where all the publishers come for d20. I'll admit, things are more diluted now then they used to be. To me it was always huge to have the latest Necro product getting lead play on the EW front page. But there is so much stuff going on here these days that the impact of that lead bit has been lessened.
Nevertheless, you will always see me here for two reasons:
1. It is the best d20 community. Period.
2. It is where I got Necro started.
As for good and bad press and boycotts and things like that, my guess is they are pretty overrated. In general, people either want the book or they dont. The number of people who will not buy a book that they are otherwise drooling for because of a boycott seems slim to me. And since my goal is to make books you are drooling over (as oposed to just cranking out titles to make $$$, and no this is not a jab at anyone or any company or anything, just a statement that our company goal is to make kick a$$ books that you WANT to have), I dont concern myself with the occasional bad issue or person I piss off (which happens
, but hopefully I am forgiven) or whatever. And I dont think it really reflects that significantly in sales. Though for a "smaller" publisher (see above) or a PDF product, it could be detrimental. Just like positive buzz could be great. I will also say this, I have seen some bad press that I thought wasnt warranted and some bad reviews of products I thought were great. And, similarly, I have seen some lame products praised up and down that I wouldnt have purchased if you gave me the money. So I think, though gamers like to vent and give opinions which is very cool, that gamers are independent thinkers as a general principle and will make up their own mind despite good or bad press.
But if you want, I would be happy to volunteer to do a test: everyone go out and buy City State of the Invincible Overlord.
Its early release spike has passed so if I see a spike from this thread then we will know that ENWorld generates sales. Clark
Darrin Drader
Explorer
Having seen things first-hand, I would have to agree with 100% of what Mike Mearls said above.
One of the companies I work with did an informal study at a series of cons they attended a couple years ago. Every time someone came up and bought a book, they asked how much time they spent at ENWorld. Ninety percent of those people responded "ENWhat?" But the overall customer awareness doesn't actually measure the impact it has on the industry. For me, ENWorld is very important because its a place where I can get some feedback on the stuff I've designed. If I hear 10 negative comments about a book and only three positive, then I look at what is being said to determine where things went wrong. One the other hand, if the reverse is true then I allow myself to give myself a pat on the back and try to determine where things went right.
One thing you also have to look at with ENWorld or any other online community is what the signal to noise ratio is. Take 3.5, for instance (which I didn't work on at all). I'm the first person to agree that they were probably released a year or two too early. On the other hand, having played through 3.0 and seeing just how much better the game plays and how many more options there are for both players and DMs under 3.5, I pretty much ignore the anti-3.5 bile that is constantly seething to the surface. Yeah, there's a lot of people who would have liked to have gotten more mileage out of their 3.0 books, and I can understand that, but in my mind, the 3.5 books are far superior and worth every penny paid.
One of the companies I work with did an informal study at a series of cons they attended a couple years ago. Every time someone came up and bought a book, they asked how much time they spent at ENWorld. Ninety percent of those people responded "ENWhat?" But the overall customer awareness doesn't actually measure the impact it has on the industry. For me, ENWorld is very important because its a place where I can get some feedback on the stuff I've designed. If I hear 10 negative comments about a book and only three positive, then I look at what is being said to determine where things went wrong. One the other hand, if the reverse is true then I allow myself to give myself a pat on the back and try to determine where things went right.
One thing you also have to look at with ENWorld or any other online community is what the signal to noise ratio is. Take 3.5, for instance (which I didn't work on at all). I'm the first person to agree that they were probably released a year or two too early. On the other hand, having played through 3.0 and seeing just how much better the game plays and how many more options there are for both players and DMs under 3.5, I pretty much ignore the anti-3.5 bile that is constantly seething to the surface. Yeah, there's a lot of people who would have liked to have gotten more mileage out of their 3.0 books, and I can understand that, but in my mind, the 3.5 books are far superior and worth every penny paid.
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Turjan
Explorer
No idea. When I saw your question, I had to look which were the first pdf's that I bought, and these were 'The Book of Eldritch Might' and 'Wild Spellcraft'. As this was only in February of 2002, I suppose that those were far from the first commercial pdf's available.philreed said:
Turjan
Explorer
I'm not sure whether we all need a second copy of that book as good as it isOrcus said:But if you want, I would be happy to volunteer to do a test: everyone go out and buy City State of the Invincible Overlord.
!
Kid Charlemagne
I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
Whisperfoot said:
I think that ENWorld's impact is even felt by those people - because a lot of them probably play with people who are here, hearing about all the new, cool, stuff. I forget the exact marketing term, but companies often look to market to small, intense niche audiences like ENWorld because the people who take the time to come here are hardcore gamers, and will sing the praises of products that they hear about and like.
I can tell you that of my two gaming groups (say, 11 people), only 4 post here with any regularity. Of the other seven, 3 are still very hardcore D&D gamers, but either don't frequent online forums much, or don't surf much. For what its worth...
DaveStebbins
First Post
I was part of the early release spike, so I won't be part of the EN World spike now. However, I don't hang out at game shops at all, so if it weren't for EN World, I never would have heard about the CSIO update and release. EN World is the entire reason I was part of the initial release sales spike at all. And the reason I plan to be part of the Wilderlands Campaign Setting sales spike on GenCon Thursday.Orcus said:But if you want, I would be happy to volunteer to do a test: everyone go out and buy City State of the Invincible Overlord.
-Dave
HellHound
ENnies winner and NOT Scrappy Doo
philreed said:
0One Games was the first electronic d20 publisher on the scene, according to everything I've read.
Hyperbooks had a lot of product back when there wasn't much out there. One of the product they sell, STARPLAY ARMAGEDDON, was the first commercial PDF I ever picked up.
Malhavoc was the first to really break into the marketplace and 'make' it a market.
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