Does Exceptional Deflection count against Magic Missiles?

[molonel]

That's an easy one.

he sees ambiguity because he wants to print it off and show it to his DM saying, See it stops magic missiles!

Leave the dimestore psychology to someone who can pull it off with some panache.

Like most rules questions, it came up in play, but I don't game with any DMs who are swayed by a print off. Since it's an epic game, it's not like Shield spells and Brooches of Shielding are hard to come by, and when you're high enough to have both Infinite Deflection and Exceptional Deflection, the question is more academic than anything else.

I was curious if anyone else had run into this rare quandry in gameplay, and how they answered it.

As far as I can see, nobody has actually thought about it, before. The feat, plus Infinite Deflection, makes you immune to rays, orbs and any spell that requires a ranged touch attack, but strangely, it doesn't give you any benefit against Magic Missiles because ... that's a spell.

I don't find the logic that's not an "attack" particularly compelling, either.

A magic missile is a targeted ranged attack spell. The feat is not confined to ONLY ranged touch spells, but it also includes ranged touch spells. It's a spell that's stopped by Shield, Minor Globe of Invulnerability and putting it under the category of "any" doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me, since we're talking about an epic feat against a first level spell.

 

[Slaved]

I thought that was the definition of an attack?

For example, you can't Sneak Attack with a magic missile, because it's not an attack.

You can Sneak Attack with a scorching ray, because it is an attack.

Cheers, -- N

If you know where it says that in the rules I would be happy to read it. I believe that my statement would be correct either way though. If magic missile is a ranged attack then of course it works.

 

[molonel]

I thought that was the definition of an attack?

For example, you can't Sneak Attack with a magic missile, because it's not an attack.

You can Sneak Attack with a scorching ray, because it is an attack.

Cheers, -- N

Hmmm. I'm not sure about that, but that is the first answer I've seen that actually carries some merit. Thank you.

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http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a

Any spell that requires an attack roll and deals damage can be used in a sneak attack. In this case "damage" is normal damage, nonlethal damage, ability damage, or energy drain. You can sneak attack with a Melf's acid arrow spell, but not with a magic missile spell.

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The problem is that a Magic Missile can't be used as a Sneak Attack, not because it's NOT a ranged attack, but because the nature of sneak attack requires something that can be aimed for the precision-based damage.

It's still a ranged attack, though.

Does that make sense?

 

[SlagMortar]

The only mechanical context that I know of where magic missle is considered an attack is that it breaks invisibility. I believe in any other context a "ranged attack" requires an attack roll.

A magic missile is a targeted ranged attack spell.

Compare magic missle's stat block to that of other targeted spells. It looks the same. If exceptional deflection blocks magic missle it should also block horrid wilting, destruction, hold monster, etc.

 

[molonel]

The only mechanical context that I know of where magic missle is considered an attack is that it breaks invisibility. I believe in any other context a "ranged attack" requires an attack roll.

Fair point.

Compare magic missle's stat block to that of other targeted spells. It looks the same. If exceptional deflection blocks magic missle it should also block horrid wilting, destruction, hold monster, etc.

But those spells aren't launching "A missile of magical energy" against someone with an epic feat that allows them to deflect "any ranged attack."

 

[Christian]

Fair point.



But those spells aren't launching "A missile of magical energy" against someone with an epic feat that allows them to deflect "any ranged attack."

If you're having to rely on the flavor text to make your point, you're really reaching ... Ranged attacks require ranged attack rolls. That the text description of the spell effect sounds kind of like shooting a magical arrow is not relevant to the rules description of the effect. When it hits automatically (subject to saves and spell resistance), it's not an attack--it's an effect.

 

[molonel]

If you're having to rely on the flavor text to make your point, you're really reaching ... Ranged attacks require ranged attack rolls. That the text description of the spell effect sounds kind of like shooting a magical arrow is not relevant to the rules description of the effect. When it hits automatically (subject to saves and spell resistance), it's not an attack--it's an effect.

I didn't mention that it should be stopped because it's "kind of like shooting a magical arrow." Those are your words.

I find that text usually undergoes this really cool metamorphisis into "flavor text" whenever it becomes inconvenient in a rules discussion. It's an attack. It does damage. It flies through the air as a magical missile. It's an attack with a range. It's not a melee attack. It's a ranged attack.

A 1st level shield spell blocks it. A 1,500 gp minor magic item trumps it. I don't think it's reach too far to allow an epic feat that stops "all" ranged attacks to stop it.

But I suppose that depends on how you define the word "all"?

The reason it can't be used as a sneak attack is because the spell description itself says, " Specific parts of a creature can’t be singled out" which prevents precision-based damage.

 

[javcs]

Check out the 'weapon-like spells' section of CArc.

You can't deflect something unless it's ranged attack, you must look at the deflect arrows description as well to help clarify this.

Boulders and spell effects that are ranged attacks can't be deflected with deflect arrows.
Exceptional deflection permits you to deflect boulders, and other unusual ranged attacks, including spells that require attack rolls. That's to include stuff, albeit unintentionally, that a hulking hurler could throw around. Yeah, it's weird looking, deflecting a house, but, y'know . . .

The only reason that magic missile breaks invisibility is because its 'effect', as it were, "includes" an opponent.

Because MM does not require an attack roll, there is no way that it could miss, part of the 'unerringly striking' the target, if it could miss, and be deflected, it would require an attack roll.

What Exceptional Deflection permits you to do is to deflect anything requiring a ranged attack roll.
If it didn't, you would get people wanting to deflect fireballs, breath weapons, etc. (if MM counts as a ranged attack, they do as well).

 

[molonel]

Check out the 'weapon-like spells' section of CArc.

You can't deflect something unless it's ranged attack, you must look at the deflect arrows description as well to help clarify this.

Boulders and spell effects that are ranged attacks can't be deflected with deflect arrows.
Exceptional deflection permits you to deflect boulders, and other unusual ranged attacks, including spells that require attack rolls. That's to include stuff, albeit unintentionally, that a hulking hurler could throw around. Yeah, it's weird looking, deflecting a house, but, y'know . . .

The only reason that magic missile breaks invisibility is because its 'effect', as it were, "includes" an opponent.

Because MM does not require an attack roll, there is no way that it could miss, part of the 'unerringly striking' the target, if it could miss, and be deflected, it would require an attack roll.

What Exceptional Deflection permits you to do is to deflect anything requiring a ranged attack roll.
If it didn't, you would get people wanting to deflect fireballs, breath weapons, etc. (if MM counts as a ranged attack, they do as well).

All right. That makes more sense to me, stated thusly.

Thank you. I'll check out that section when I get home.

 

[Thurbane]

No ambiguity here whatsoever IMHO - the feat doesn't stop magic missiles, since they don't meet the criteria of what the feat does block...