Does Exceptional Deflection count against Magic Missiles?

[Nonlethal Force]

But those spells aren't launching "A missile of magical energy" against someone with an epic feat that allows them to deflect "any ranged attack."

Hmmm. okay. So the question is if a feat can stop a 1d4+1 attack at epic levels....


I realize that precedents are something to look out for, but as a DM I'd simply say no and move on. is 1d4+1 really worth the argument? [I say 1d4+1 because MM uses multiple missle, not a single missle that gets more powerful with caster levels.]

 

[molonel]

Hmmm. okay. So the question is if a feat can stop a 1d4+1 attack at epic levels....I realize that precedents are something to look out for, but as a DM I'd simply say no and move on. is 1d4+1 really worth the argument? [I say 1d4+1 because MM uses multiple missle, not a single missle that gets more powerful with caster levels.]

You've never played Epic levels, I take it?

That mere 1d4+1 later turns into five missiles which can be maximized, empowered, twinned, repeated blah blah etc. etc.

I saw a high-level player do something like 150 points of damage with a magic missile one time. The attack cannot miss, allows no saving throw and only SR can save you.

 

[javcs]

And how much of his resources was he burning on that '150' point damage magic missile?

Are you certain it was actually a magic missile, and not some epic variant?

 

[molonel]

And how much of his resources was he burning on that '150' point damage magic missile?

I've seen builds that take material from Dragon Magazine and crank it to 208 damage, actually.

At epic levels? Mid 20s or low 30s?

Not a whole heck of a lot.

Are you certain it was actually a magic missile, and not some epic variant?

There was a contest in the RPGA to see how much damage one could milk out of a the lowly magic missile spell. I don't recall specifically which feats were used, but all of them were from WotC books. I can assure you, it was a lowly magic missile spell. None of the feats were epic, either.

Chain Missile in the Spell Compendium gives you a little more punch, too. But that particular contest was before the release of SC.

 

[Sithobi1]

Maybe he was using Chain Missile, from SC?

 

[molonel]

Maybe he was using Chain Missile, from SC?

No, it was before the SC came out, I think. A maximized, empowered, repeated, twinned Magic Missile is a 13th level spell - I'm going from memory, so if I'm off by a bit, I'm confident someone with books at hand will correct me. Sudden Maximize or a metamagic rod can easily take that down to a 9th level spell, and that's (25 + 12) x 2 = 74 x 2 = 148 right off the bat.

That's without thinking about it very hard. Like I said, I don't have my books, but I think Twin Spell can be cast on MM, but even if it can't, so many people have run the numbers on Magic Missile that I'm sure it will be posted by someone.

The point is, at epic levels, which is the only place where this discussion can take place, a "mere" magic missile can be a bit more of a threat than 1d4+1.

A lot more, in fact.