Does Metaplot ever work? Forked Thread: Greyhawk 4e
- Thread starter S'mon
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Treebore
First Post
They work for me, but I have never used them as written. Like Iuz never took over nearly as much of Oerth as he did according to TSR. I can only guess TSR forgot how kick butt just their NPC's in the setting are/were, let alone the additional PC's and NPC's I had in the setting at the time. So Iuz advanced, but got stopped much sooner in my camapign.
Traveller. People had problems with what they did to the setting in Mega Traveller, let alone the New Era. Again, I used the idea but adapted it to where my camapigns were going.
L5R is a meta plot controlled by the CCG. Again, I use what I like and throw away what I don't.
The Faerun Avatar thing. I largely ignored the gods dying, and mortals ascension thing. I did have Cyric appear and weakened Bane because of it, but I kept Myrkul, Bhaal, etc... around. Mystra die? Yeah, right. Like that could even happen. The Archmage of all time and space killable? What nonsense. So I didn't have the weave crap happen as written, but I did have Mystra do something that created some magic dead areas and wild magic areas, but not nearly to the extent the novels had it happen.
Ao? Who the heck is that?
So, no, they didn't/don't work for me as written, but by taking some ideas from them and adapting them into things that did work for me I made them successful for me.
Traveller. People had problems with what they did to the setting in Mega Traveller, let alone the New Era. Again, I used the idea but adapted it to where my camapigns were going.
L5R is a meta plot controlled by the CCG. Again, I use what I like and throw away what I don't.
The Faerun Avatar thing. I largely ignored the gods dying, and mortals ascension thing. I did have Cyric appear and weakened Bane because of it, but I kept Myrkul, Bhaal, etc... around. Mystra die? Yeah, right. Like that could even happen. The Archmage of all time and space killable? What nonsense. So I didn't have the weave crap happen as written, but I did have Mystra do something that created some magic dead areas and wild magic areas, but not nearly to the extent the novels had it happen.
Ao? Who the heck is that?
So, no, they didn't/don't work for me as written, but by taking some ideas from them and adapting them into things that did work for me I made them successful for me.
I'm guessing they were following EGG's initial Greyhawk wars chronology (see Artifact of Evil) while forgetting that EGG's Iuz had a Theorpart, making him super-powerful.
You realise its happened at least one before right?
Silent Cartographer
Explorer
I agree that meta-plots are difficult to pull off.
However, I ran a very successful Shadowrun 2/3 campaign that lasted over 4 years, based on heavily modified meta-plot adventures. It worked great, and as the PCs advanced over the years into really powerful characters, they felt like they were really participating in the meta-plot directly.
After the release of SR4, we went back and ran a post-retirement mini-campaign based on Survival of the Fittest. Due the the stature previously achieved by the PCs, it seemed a natural fit to involve them directly in the meta-plot again as agents of Hestaby.
The campaign didn't start this way; in the early days, the PCs were limited to niche security and investigative work in Seattle. But once they had achieved a certain level of success, using the meta-plot to drive parts of the campaign worked like a treat.
However, I ran a very successful Shadowrun 2/3 campaign that lasted over 4 years, based on heavily modified meta-plot adventures. It worked great, and as the PCs advanced over the years into really powerful characters, they felt like they were really participating in the meta-plot directly.
After the release of SR4, we went back and ran a post-retirement mini-campaign based on Survival of the Fittest. Due the the stature previously achieved by the PCs, it seemed a natural fit to involve them directly in the meta-plot again as agents of Hestaby.
The campaign didn't start this way; in the early days, the PCs were limited to niche security and investigative work in Seattle. But once they had achieved a certain level of success, using the meta-plot to drive parts of the campaign worked like a treat.
Treebore
First Post
Yep. I allowed that to happen because she voluntarily passed on the mantle of power. Someone so much apart of the weave knows when it is being messed with like that. So it was used to her advantage, not detriment.
To me Mystra is pretty much the ultimate god. Totally omniscient when it comes to magic, plus able to see into the future, past, and able to manipulate the possibilities like a master. Only a fool would underestimate what Mystra can do. Fortunately there are always fools, even among the deific powers, so things stay interesting.
It's not metaplot itself I dislike, but the way they clumsily advance the setting because of it. To use Greyhawk as an example, I like Carl Sergent's From the Ashes stuff, but that is in spite of the metaplot, not because of it. I'd somewhat prefer setting remain static, or that individual adventures advance from a universal set point, rather than from the last adventure (see Die, Vecna, Die and the difficulty subsequent products had incorporating that). Of course, they always will advance timelines, as it's the easiest way to sell stuff; so I would implore them to try and do a good job, and not be afraid to ignore things that happen in bad adventures and novels when the line editor has been less than a vigilant hard-ass. Try for things that advance the timeline in a way that aids DMs, as opposed to whoever is writing the setting's novels.
Oh, and Set, I love the Scarred Lands (esp. Hollowfaust), and I'd forgotten there even was a metaplot. Although I remember much of that elf stuff now that you mention it. The Slaracian Legacy wasn't my favorite supplement, but I did think they did a good job of including ways to run a totally world-changing campaign, but didn't imply that some version of this was somehow going to become cannon for SL.
Oh, and Set, I love the Scarred Lands (esp. Hollowfaust), and I'd forgotten there even was a metaplot. Although I remember much of that elf stuff now that you mention it. The Slaracian Legacy wasn't my favorite supplement, but I did think they did a good job of including ways to run a totally world-changing campaign, but didn't imply that some version of this was somehow going to become cannon for SL.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
Does metaplot work? Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. I thoroughly enjoyed most of the metaplot for MegaTraveller and used it as a backdrop for adventuring. Gave me the perfect excuse to reactivate the retired scout and put him in a faster ship than an S1. It also gave me plenty of into to build a textured background. Real news that seemed to keep the background really moving forward.
I'm not going to toss out the whole idea of metaplots just because there are some that i have found problematic. Each one should be judged on its own merits as to whether it's useful or not.
The major problem I see with metaplots is they often get a bit too grandiose and campaign-transforming. The final development of the MegaTraveller metaplot and transition into New Era left me cold. It took something interesting and took it WAY to far for my tastes. Some people may think that if a metaplot doesn't change things, then there was no point to it. That may be true, but there's a difference between change (Imperium breaks up into domains, borders shift around the Solomani Sphere, loss of Corridor to Vargr cuts Deneb off from Capital) and taking it out behind the shed and shooting it to death (TNE).
I'm not going to toss out the whole idea of metaplots just because there are some that i have found problematic. Each one should be judged on its own merits as to whether it's useful or not.
The major problem I see with metaplots is they often get a bit too grandiose and campaign-transforming. The final development of the MegaTraveller metaplot and transition into New Era left me cold. It took something interesting and took it WAY to far for my tastes. Some people may think that if a metaplot doesn't change things, then there was no point to it. That may be true, but there's a difference between change (Imperium breaks up into domains, borders shift around the Solomani Sphere, loss of Corridor to Vargr cuts Deneb off from Capital) and taking it out behind the shed and shooting it to death (TNE).
That's a good point. Many authors, especially novel authors, seem unable to think small, and mistake "world changing!" for "exciting", replacing plot and character and new ideas with trite apocalypses and other "Realm Shaking Events".
A bad idea or adventure doesn't get better if it's spread out on the entire setting.
As far as RPG-setting novels go, I thought RA Salvatore's initial Icewind Dale trilogy took the right approach - the stakes were big to the protagonists, but didn't do any damage/major changes to the Realms for GMs. Plus the scope was similar to what you'd expect for a mid-level party in an actual RPG campaign. Many authors have 1st level characters transforming the universe - maybe acceptable in a regular fantasy novel, but a really bad idea in an RPG book sales line IMO.
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