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<blockquote data-quote="Lord_Blacksteel" data-source="post: 6190392" data-attributes="member: 53082">Mythic is the new &quot;Epic without being Level 20&quot; book, not a PH2. Now the forthcoming &quot;Advanced Class Guide&quot; ...Oh come on now - 4th Edition was the most party/group focused RPG I've seen as far as mechanics and approach and going back to Basic/AD&amp;D we always used individual initiative. Let's not go generational on this because of one class in an expansion book.Not specifically D&amp;D, but in addition to the Jekyll/Hyde example consider Captain Trips form the Wild Cards novels who used different mixtures to turn into a range of different superheroes. He didn't hand them out to other people - he used them on himself. The Alchemist class does broaden out somewhat as it levels up. I don't see it any more gamey than wizards not casting in full plate or clerics wielding only blunt weapons in older editions. That said I wouldn't mind if a reworked alchemist class was able to share cures with the party to create an alternative to the cleric for a reliable healing/buffing class. To the original post: It's a game with a 300 page rulebook. It's &quot;gamier&quot; than many things, including other RPG's. I think for a lot of the players that's a positive thing, not a negative, but you're bound to find something that rubs you wrong in a game this massive.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lord_Blacksteel, post: 6190392, member: 53082"] Mythic is the new "Epic without being Level 20" book, not a PH2. Now the forthcoming "Advanced Class Guide" ... Oh come on now - 4th Edition was the most party/group focused RPG I've seen as far as mechanics and approach and going back to Basic/AD&D we always used individual initiative. Let's not go generational on this because of one class in an expansion book. Not specifically D&D, but in addition to the Jekyll/Hyde example consider Captain Trips form the Wild Cards novels who used different mixtures to turn into a range of different superheroes. He didn't hand them out to other people - he used them on himself. The Alchemist class does broaden out somewhat as it levels up. I don't see it any more gamey than wizards not casting in full plate or clerics wielding only blunt weapons in older editions. That said I wouldn't mind if a reworked alchemist class was able to share cures with the party to create an alternative to the cleric for a reliable healing/buffing class. To the original post: It's a game with a 300 page rulebook. It's "gamier" than many things, including other RPG's. I think for a lot of the players that's a positive thing, not a negative, but you're bound to find something that rubs you wrong in a game this massive. [/QUOTE]

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